Date   

Re: Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Carla Orvis Hunt
 

Cathy: are Wilhelm and Kallbrunner places? If so, do you know if they were Hungary, Austria, or... then? I can probably help search on that level. 


Carla Orvis Hunt
510.375.7413

"Just don't give up trying to do what you really want to do. Where
there is love and inspiration, I don't think you can go wrong." ~ Ella Fitzgerald


On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:45 PM Cathy Reece <cre29ece@...> wrote:
Dear Carla,
Source of sibling’s of Peter Ballauer is a genealogist in Romania. He researched this family for us. Peter Ballauer is 5 generations from Darlene and I.

What’s your source for parents of Peter Ballauer?
I have Wilhelm and Kallbrunner and I’m searching for Franz Ballauer in W/K now.Cathy R.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:29 AM Carla Orvis Hunt <carlaorvishunt@...> wrote:

Hi Darlene! 


I am also in search of Peter’s parents, and maybe we can help each other:-) He and Barbara are my fifth great grands! 


Would you share your source on the siblings? I was just digging around to try and determine that. Also, the DSM family book is almost to me from Germany, yay, maybe it will give a clue.

Look forward to hearing from you,
Carla 
#Ballauer #Gertianosch #Jobba #Jopa 

 


Re: Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Carla Orvis Hunt
 

Hi Ladies!!! How wonderful! 

That certainly must make us cousins... of some distinction. :):)

To be clear: I am SEARCHING for Peter Ballauer's parents, also. I do not know them. It seems Cathy may be ahead of me since she has siblings and possible parents names. 

What I have is from the #Gertianosch Family Book and a few other sources, search run for me by the author of the Gert Family Book because I wanted to purchase it but it's out of print (and because he's amazing like that). 

Additionally, the DSM family book is currently en route to my house! It arrived NY last night from Germany, so arriving here this week, I imagine. It *may* have more info about Peter or something that leads us to him?? 

Here's the basic dates/places of what I know, if it helps, from records mentioned above:

From records:

1. (my emigrant great grandmother is Katharina Ballauer, b. 19 July 1899, DSM) 
2. her parents are Franz Ballauer (b. 1858 DSM / d. Illinois) and Margaretha Holz (b. 1859 DSM / d. Indiana) 
3. Franz Ballauer's parents are Josef Ballauer (b. Gertianosch / d. 1878 DSM) and Anna Maria Fortler (b. 1835 Lovrin / d. States)
4. Josef Ballauer's parents are Jakob Ballauer (b. 1801 Gertianosch / d. 1866 Gertianosch) and Katharina Remich (sp? Remmich?) (b. 1794 Newubeschenowa / d. 1854 Gertianosch)
5. Jakob's parents are Peter Ballauer (b. circa 1776, unknown location  / d. 1836 Gertianosch) and Barbara Jobba (sp? Jopa?) (b. 01 MARCH 1782 Wiltz, Luxemburg / d. 10 OCT 1853 Gertianosch)
NO INFO ON PETER's PARENTS; but to trace Barbara, I have her parents as:
Johann Jobba (son of J. Ferdinand and Barbara Berg) (Johann Jobba, born 19 JULY 1757 Wiltz, Lux / d. 04 MAR 1781 Wiltz, Lux)
AND
Margarethe Mertes (daughter of Peter Johann and Anna Katharina Differding) (Margarethe born 06 APR 1760 Dahl, Luxemburg / no death info)

I also have notes on Johann's arrival to Banat, and record of his daughter Barbara's marriage to Peter, 1799 no location but probably? Gertianosch. 

I can also go back to the Gertianosch author and ask; I thought I would look in the DSM book first when it gets here so as not to bug him unnecessarily. 

Look forward to hearing back, 
Carla 








Carla Orvis Hunt
510.375.7413

"Just don't give up trying to do what you really want to do. Where
there is love and inspiration, I don't think you can go wrong." ~ Ella Fitzgerald


On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:39 PM Darlene Broomall <djones000@...> wrote:
Carla
Just got your email.
I see that my cousin Cathy has already gotten back to you.
Glad to see we have common ancestors.  
What is your source of Peter's parent's names? And that they are from DSM?  We have been searching  for them forever..

Thank you for getting back to me and your interest in our ancestors.
Darlene

----- Original Message -----
From: Carla Orvis Hunt <carlaorvishunt@...>
To: everybody@banat.groups.io
Sent: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 03:02:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [banat] Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Hi Darlene! 


I am also in search of Peter’s parents, and maybe we can help each other:-) He and Barbara are my fifth great grands! 


Would you share your source on the siblings? I was just digging around to try and determine that. Also, the DSM family book is almost to me from Germany, yay, maybe it will give a clue.


Look forward to hearing from you,
Carla 
#Ballauer #Gertianosch #Jobba #Jopa 

 




Re: Fasnacht

Angela Helfrich Daugherty
 

my mother made the donuts on Jan 6 for 3 Kings Day.  They had coins and the one getting a coin would have good luck for the year.
Angela Helfrich Daugherty


On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 6:55 PM Edward Lowitz via groups.io <edward.lowitz1=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Anybody care to contribute family lore about Fasnacht in the Banat?

 

I remember my grandmother making fried donuts which contained coins and I think she did it for Shrove Tuesday which she called Donut Day.  There seems to be more about it than that though (Swabian Festival?  Donut Day in June?).

 

Ed.


Re: Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Darlene Broomall
 

Carla
Just got your email.
I see that my cousin Cathy has already gotten back to you.
Glad to see we have common ancestors.  
What is your source of Peter's parent's names? And that they are from DSM?  We have been searching  for them forever..

Thank you for getting back to me and your interest in our ancestors.
Darlene

----- Original Message -----
From: Carla Orvis Hunt <carlaorvishunt@...>
To: everybody@banat.groups.io
Sent: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 03:02:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [banat] Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Hi Darlene! 


I am also in search of Peter’s parents, and maybe we can help each other:-) He and Barbara are my fifth great grands! 


Would you share your source on the siblings? I was just digging around to try and determine that. Also, the DSM family book is almost to me from Germany, yay, maybe it will give a clue.


Look forward to hearing from you,
Carla 
#Ballauer #Gertianosch #Jobba #Jopa 

 




Fasnacht

Edward Lowitz
 

Anybody care to contribute family lore about Fasnacht in the Banat?

 

I remember my grandmother making fried donuts which contained coins and I think she did it for Shrove Tuesday which she called Donut Day.  There seems to be more about it than that though (Swabian Festival?  Donut Day in June?).

 

Ed.


Re: Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Cathy Reece
 

Dear Carla,
Source of sibling’s of Peter Ballauer is a genealogist in Romania. He researched this family for us. Peter Ballauer is 5 generations from Darlene and I.

What’s your source for parents of Peter Ballauer?
I have Wilhelm and Kallbrunner and I’m searching for Franz Ballauer in W/K now.Cathy R.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:29 AM Carla Orvis Hunt <carlaorvishunt@...> wrote:

Hi Darlene! 


I am also in search of Peter’s parents, and maybe we can help each other:-) He and Barbara are my fifth great grands! 


Would you share your source on the siblings? I was just digging around to try and determine that. Also, the DSM family book is almost to me from Germany, yay, maybe it will give a clue.

Look forward to hearing from you,
Carla 
#Ballauer #Gertianosch #Jobba #Jopa 

 


Re: Thank you for the add and hello! Ballauer Holz Deutschsanktmichael

Cathy Reece
 

Carla, 
I am Darlene’s first cousin, Cathy.
Peter Ballauer and Barbara Joppa are my 5th great grandparents as well.

Are you saying Peter Ballauer’s father is Franz Ballauer and he and his wife are in DSM 
FB?

We been looking for this info for a decade.

Barbara Joppa is from Luxembourg— she was born in Wiltz.

I am very interested in this info.
Peter and Barbara’s son Johannes Georgius
is my direct ancestor—born 1806 in Gertianosch. Which child of Peter and Barbara are you descended from?

Cathy R



On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:29 AM Carla Orvis Hunt <carlaorvishunt@...> wrote:

Dear Banaters, 

first, is that what we call ourselves? :-) Banatians sounds strange. 

Thank you for the add! Would moderators please check to make sure my privacy settings are as requested? 


I’ve filled out my bio; I’m one of the great-granddaughters of Katherina Ballauer, parents Franz #Ballauer and Margaretha #Holz. With a lot of help, I’ve managed to get pretty far on some of the lines with some sticking points. Years ago, I figured out the “correct” spelling of Ballauer, and only a few weeks ago did a do a deep dive and find our village of origin #Deutchsanktmichael #D St. Michael. So very exciting!!  Thank you all for being here for me to find 💜

Currently studying: DSM and 
#Gertianosch #Lovrin #Gottlob #Sanktandras (sp?) #Peter Junger #Magdalena Junger #Carpinis #timisoara #bogarosch #sackelhausen #neub 





Thank you for the add and hello! Ballauer Holz Deutschsanktmichael

Carla Orvis Hunt
 

Dear Banaters, 

first, is that what we call ourselves? :-) Banatians sounds strange. 

Thank you for the add! Would moderators please check to make sure my privacy settings are as requested? 


I’ve filled out my bio; I’m one of the great-granddaughters of Katherina Ballauer, parents Franz #Ballauer and Margaretha #Holz. With a lot of help, I’ve managed to get pretty far on some of the lines with some sticking points. Years ago, I figured out the “correct” spelling of Ballauer, and only a few weeks ago did a do a deep dive and find our village of origin #Deutchsanktmichael #D St. Michael. So very exciting!!  Thank you all for being here for me to find 💜

Currently studying: DSM and 
#Gertianosch #Lovrin #Gottlob #Sanktandras (sp?) #Peter Junger #Magdalena Junger #Carpinis #timisoara #bogarosch #sackelhausen #neub 





Re: Stader request Ballauer/Pallauer/Palauer

Carla Orvis Hunt
 

Hi Darlene! 


I am also in search of Peter’s parents, and maybe we can help each other:-) He and Barbara are my fifth great grands! 


Would you share your source on the siblings? I was just digging around to try and determine that. Also, the DSM family book is almost to me from Germany, yay, maybe it will give a clue.

Look forward to hearing from you,
Carla 
#Ballauer #Gertianosch #Jobba #Jopa 

 


Re: Hatzfeld Family Books

Charlie Tiller
 

On further review, I remain willing to part with my Deutsch Zerne family book hard copy, which is out of print. The two-volume set is gently used and in good condition. I am aware there is an amended CD edition still available, but perhaps someone will appreciate having a tangible artifact for the family shelf.

Please contact me by personal email if you are interested.

Charlie Tiller
Charlietiller@...


From: everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> on behalf of Karen Dalton Preston <karen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 1:19:43 PM
To: Banat.io List <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [banat] Hatzfeld Family Books
 
Many thanks for the kind words.  But, what I and other authors of family books get is just the satisfaction of keeping the history alive.  We are all volunteers and are not compensated for our work or our time.  

The money generated by book and CD sales goes to fund photographing new records in Serbia and Romania.  To get the clear digital photographs of Church books that we use to create the family books, organizations such as the AVBF and the AKdFF pay researchers to go into the Archives to photograph the books.  This also usually involves paying hefty fees to the Archives to get their permission for the photography.

Writing a family book is a labor of love.

—Karen

On Jan 26, 2021, at 2:09 PM, Charlie Tiller <charlietiller@...> wrote:

My thanks to Karen for clarifying about the D-Zerne CD. Those who made the work happen deserve the modest rewards while official sales are ongoing.

Charlie Tiller


From: everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> on behalf of Karen Dalton Preston <karen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 12:48:41 PM
To: Banat.io List <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [banat] Hatzfeld Family Books
 
FYI all,

Since the subject of a Hatzfeld CD was raised in Charlie’s email, let me clarify.  A CD for the 6-volume Hatzfeld set was never released. 

There was a CD released for Deutsch-Zerne.  After the 2 volume set of books for D-Zerne was released, and sold-out, some additional records came to light, and the authors released a CD version update which included a substantial amount of new data.

The D-Zerne CD is still available for purchase  See www.banatbooks.com, or contact me.

—Karen Preston

On Jan 26, 2021, at 1:29 PM, Charlie Tiller <charlietiller@...> wrote:

Hi Elaine (or maybe others?),

Since it has come up, perhaps I would part with my Hatzfeld Family Book set. I also have Deutsch Zerne if there is interest. These sets are in excellent physical condition, just filling shelf space.

If memory serves correctly, one of the two sets (Hatzfeld?) is supplemented by an update CD which I could include with the hard copy. I'll have to double check on that. By principle and preference, I won't send the CD version without also transferring the hard copy tomes from my bookshelf to yours.

Please allow me a few weeks to confirm I have all the data I need before reaching a final  arrangement. With regard to pricing, profit is not my motive; the primary costs would probably be the packing and shipping unless the effort grows unwieldy.

Elaine (or others if she finds a copy elsewhere) can correspond directly with me rather than cluttering the Banat list: charlietiller@... .

Best wishes to all,
Charlie Tiller
St. Paul, MN

[Tiller, Kampf, Kovacs/Schmied, Fechter and others in Hatzfeld, Grabatz, Deutsch Zerne and Toba environs of Torontal district]


From: everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> on behalf of elaine ess <lanieess@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 11:10:58 AM
To: everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Subject: [banat] Hatzfeld Family Books
 
Hello group,
Does anyone know of anyone interested in selling a copy of the Hatzfeld book?  I know it is currently sold out.  Or is there a possible PDF or CD version available yet?
Thanking you in advance,
Elaine Ess



Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Erin Kampf
 

Thank you, Philipp!!! This is so helpful. I really appreciate it. 


Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Philipp Gerhardt
 

Namen des Besitzers                                              Überkommungs-Art [kind of transfer of the ground]

---

Fridrich SCHMIDT ein Bauer                                    Durch die erste ordentliche                                     22 October 1777

et Barbara uxor                                                        Grundes-Eintheillung [by the first land allotment]

---

Sebastian SCHMIDT ein Bauer                                Durch Übergabe-Kontrakt[??]                                  2 May 1798

und Rosina dessen Eheweib                                    von seinem Vater [by transfer contract from his father]

----

So this shows that Friedrich SCHMIDT and Barbara were the parents of your ancestor Sebastian SCHMIDT.

Friedrich SCHMIDT is Stader No.48686:

SCHMIDT Friedrich, von Weidebach aus dem Römischen Reich [unbestimmt], reg. Wien 16.05.1766, ins Banat

WK 65/52 = BanA Fasz 35, rNr 148 fol 457b = Abs Bd. II S.55

 

WILHELM and KALLBRUNNER (WK) did not find an appropriate place of origin "Weidebach" and made only the remark "unbestimmt" (undetermined).

Friedrich SCHMIDT was registered together with two others from the same "Weidebach":

WK 65/50-52: Peter MILLER, Johannes ENDER, Fridrich SCHMID

Maybe this could help, if you know the other persons.

There is a "Weidenbach" (Oberkirch) north-east of Offenburg, Baden.

 

Philipp

 

 

 

 

Von: "Erin Kampf" <erin.kampf@...>

An: "everybody@banat.groups.io" <everybody@banat.groups.io>

 

 

 

@Anni - Yes, it certainly could be. Very difficult for me to decipher. Do you know what it says after his name and before "et Barbara uxor"?
@David - Thanks for the map. Very interesting. I have not seen that before. I must come by my love of wine honestly - so many vineyards ;)



Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Erin Kampf
 

@Anni - Yes, it certainly could be. Very difficult for me to decipher. Do you know what it says after his name and before "et Barbara uxor"?
@David - Thanks for the map. Very interesting. I have not seen that before. I must come by my love of wine honestly - so many vineyards ;)


Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

 

And if you would like to see a map of the Village of Heufeld, here is a link:
https://www.danube-swabians.org/HeufledMap.htm

--
David Preston
Banat List Admin


Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Anna Lorenz
 

Hi Erin,
I read Fridrich Schmidt over the crossed out Johann and his wife Barbara
Anni
 
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 07. Februar 2021 um 18:28 Uhr
Von: "Erin Kampf" <erin.kampf@...>
An: everybody@banat.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [banat] Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)
Hi Philipp,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I don't have any more information. I found this couple noted in the Allocation of House Numbers (Zuteilung der Hausnummern) for Heufeld. They are the first listed for House 42 (although Johann is crossed out and I cannot read what is written above). My ancestor Sebastian SCHMIDT is listed second, so I am guessing these may be his parents, or at least probably related in some way. See attached for the record in question. Would appreciate any insight you or others may have.

Best regards,
Erin


Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Erin Kampf
 

Hi Philipp,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I don't have any more information. I found this couple noted in the Allocation of House Numbers (Zuteilung der Hausnummern) for Heufeld. They are the first listed for House 42 (although Johann is crossed out and I cannot read what is written above). My ancestor Sebastian SCHMIDT is listed second, so I am guessing these may be his parents, or at least probably related in some way. See attached for the record in question. Would appreciate any insight you or others may have.

Best regards,
Erin


Re: Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Philipp Gerhardt
 

Although "Johannes SCHMIDT" was probably one of the most common names at that time, there was no Johannes SCHMIDT in Heufeld in 1777. Who should that be? A little more information would be helpful.

Philipp

 

 

 

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: [banat] Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Datum: 2021-02-07T02:28:43+0100

Von: "Erin Kampf" <erin.kampf@...>

An: "everybody@banat.groups.io" <everybody@banat.groups.io>

 

 

 

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone may be able to check for this family in the appropriate Stader book:

Johannes and Barbara SCHMIDT
I believe they arrived in Heufeld in 1777

Thank you!
Erin Kampf
Vancouver, Canada

 



Stader Look-up Request: SCHMID(T)

Erin Kampf
 

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone may be able to check for this family in the appropriate Stader book:

Johannes and Barbara SCHMIDT
I believe they arrived in Heufeld in 1777

Thank you!
Erin Kampf
Vancouver, Canada

 


Re: help for military records

Dave Dreyer
 


Lajos,

The assignment of companies in 1773 are given in the table pasted below.

  1773 Muster lists of Deutsch Banater companies

MUSTERPLATZ

(Hauptmann)

TOTAL MANNSCHAFT

(REICHCOLONISTS)

1791

POPULATION

Apfeldorf (Pierckmann)

103 (28)

1,023

Brestowatz (Alder)

172 (29)

 

D. Pantschowa (Wildberg) 

158 (58)

 

Homolitz (Neslinger)

111 (39)

584

Kubin (Pehn)

231 (46)                                                              

879

Oppova (Jesensky)

121 (22)

1,392

Sefkerin (Floelnick)

131 (47)

743

Serb. Pantschowa (Mehoffer)

155 (42)

 

Startschowa (Merzon)

110 (21)

1,175

 

Thus, Wildberg was the Hauptman of the company stationed in D Pantschowa.  One would have to check the Standestabellen for other years.  These records are available at Familysearch.
But so far as I am aware Wildberg would have been the Hauptman of D Pantschowa Company for the entire period 1779-1788.  Aside from what  is in the Pantschowa family book by the Adelhardts I have no further information on your Grossneks.
As you probably know, there is a further Grosnek family in Kubin which appears to be unrelated to your family.  This other Grosnek family arrived in 1766 and was from Zirovince/Slowenien.  I can send further details on this Kubin family if you are interested.

Dave Dreyer

On Monday, February 1, 2021, 09:09:21 AM PST, Lajos Balogh <lajos.77.balogh@...> wrote:


Dear Mr. Dreyer!

First of all, I apologize for my poor English.
I read your ebook, Banat Family History Series Volume VII, BANATERS IN THE XII DEUTSCH BANATERGRENZ REGIMENT RECORDS

I would like to ask you for help with my research! One of my ancestors was a soldier in the 18th century, 12. Deutch-Banater Grenz regiment. His name was Josephus Grosnek!
He married in Pantschowa in 17.11.1777. At this time he served in company of Jodocus Freiherr v. Flödnick . Four children was born in Pantschowa.
1778.08.31. Joannes Gasparius (limtroph. in company L.B .de Flödnick)
1779.12.13. Josephus (é reg. colonist company D.Capt.de Wildberg)
1788.03.07. Casparius (colonist)
1790.02.16. Matthias  †  1792.03.22  colonist)
In 1790 Joseph's wife died, his status was Colonist.. In 1792 Joseph remarried, his status was viduum Lanionerm ???, maybe widower butcher?
In 1792 he was no longer a soldier?
Would I ask for help - if you can - where he could serve under de Wildberg (1779-1788)? 
I couldn't find any more posts in Pantschowa!


Thank you for your answer in advance!
Lajos Balogh


Re: [Akdff-l] Meine Kernfamilien TRAUTMANN, ENGLER, HAUSER und LAMBERT in Karlsdorf - heute: Banatski Karlovac

Dave Dreyer
 

Jocele

I am guessing a possible explanation to your problem is as follows.
There are three main mailing lists dealing with Banat matters.
1 AKdFF list which is run by the Donauschwaben society based in Sindelingen Germany and tends to be confined to AKdFF members.  Here you can find the heavy hitters in Banat matters.
2 Donauschwaben list which is open to anyone who subscribes at genealogy.net and can be conducted in German, English and probably French.
3 Banat list which is doubtless the list you are presently subscribed to, run by David Preston out of the US  and will take messages in most languages.
Frequently a message will appear on one list and the reply will be copied on one of the other lists.  This appears to be the case in the present case------the original message came on the AKdFF list but in my reply I copied it to the Banat list,  As a result you never saw the original unless you also had subscribed to the AKdFF list.
Some people who subscribe to these lists are narrowly focused only on their own families.  But, in truth, in family history work one is not a matter of looking for family ancestors but instead looking for records which might contain data of interest.  Thus it is a search for and an understanding of record keeping, archives and the location of records.  Much can be learned about record keeping by viewing a wide range of mailing lists, forms and similar websites and libraries.     

Dave Dreyer

On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 06:24:40 PM PST, Jocele Wild <jocelew@...> wrote:


David,

Since the 1st of the year, I have been receiving responses to messages (like that below) of which I never received the original enquiry. Since I have not been receiving some other messages (like that from University colleagues), I am writing to ask if I should have received the originals or 1st messages OR if there has been a change in policy that both question and answer are sent together to everyone at that same time.

Jocele Wild (Mexico City)


From: everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Dreyer <ddreyer@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 6:35 PM
To: Akdff-l Mailingliste <akdff-l@...>; saru3@... <saru3@...>; Banat.io List <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [banat] [Akdff-l] Meine Kernfamilien TRAUTMANN, ENGLER, HAUSER und LAMBERT in Karlsdorf - heute: Banatski Karlovac
 
Sabine,

In the Standestabellen of the 12th Deutsch Banater Grenz regiment one finds a Peter Trautmann in the 1829 Nominal list of Karlsdorf and a Stefan Engler in both the 1831 Nominal and Revision lists (FHL 1217138) of Karlsdorf.

Dave Dreyer

Gruesse aus Kalifornia





On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 01:46:07 PM PST, Sabine Ruks via Akdff-l <akdff-l@...> wrote:


  Hallo Liane,

  die TRAUTMANN-Familie wanderte ca. 1810/1811 aus Nesselried, heute
  Ortsteil von Appenweier (Kreis Offenburg in Baden) ein:
  Philipp (Jakob) TRAUTMANN,
  Taufe 27.04.1767 Urloffen, (heute: Ortsteil von Appenweier,
  Ortenaukreis), Baden [Kirchenbuch Durbach]

  (Quelle: Taufe von Philippus Jacobus Trautmaenn als Sohn von Joannis
  Trautmaenn und Catharinae Heuberger aus: Deutschland, Baden, Erzbistum
  Freiburg, katholische Kirchenbuecher,
  Kopie Kirchenbuchs von Urloffen: [2]Genealogical Records Digitization
  Project (amason.net) )

  Trautmanns sind ansaessig in Urloffen ab 1684.
  Quelle: [3]Ortenau (Geschichte, Genealogie) >> Ortenau/Appenweier
  (mortenau.de)

  Heirat 27.09.1803 Katholische Kirche Durbach, (heute: Ortenaukreis),
  Baden
  mit Marianna Schwab

  Verkauf des Meyerhofs (heute: Palmerhof) in Nesselried
  (Quelle der Besitzerliste in: Sauer, Klaus: 900 Jahre Nesselried. Eine
  kleine Geschichte-Karlsruhe 2020. Seite 197.)
  Schuldenliquidation 8 Sep 1810  o Nesselried, Appenweier, Ortenaukreis,
  Baden-Wuerttemberg, Deutschland
  Eintrag in Grundbuch Band I Seite 236b: Schuldner: Andreas Keller aus
  Urloffen; Glaeubiger: Philipp Trautmann aus Nesselried, Betrag: 9.241
  Gulden.
  (Quelle: Auszuege aus der Karlsruher Zeitung fuer Einwohner von Durbach
  (m. Obernesselried u. Illental).
  [4]Ortenau (Geschichte, Genealogie) >> Grundbuch/Nesselried
  (mortenau.de)

  Weitere Quelle:
  Milleker, Felix, Geschichte der Gemeinde Banatski Karlovac (Karlsdorf)
  1803 - 1934, Wrschatz 1934 -
  ab S. 43 ff.: "Ausweis der ersten Haus- und Grundbesitzer laut
  Grundbuch vom Jahre 1808", hier: S. 49 "Haus-Nr. 122, Philipp
  Trautmann, Grundbuecherl. Besitz: 36 Joch";
  ab S. 53 ff: "Herkunftsorte der Karlovacer", hier: S. 54 "Trautmann:
  Nesselrith"
  Die Jahresangabe 1808 des Grundbuchs ist insofern interessant, da
  Philipp Trautmann bis 1810 noch nachweislich in Nesselried in Baden
  ansaessig ist und seinen Besitz erst 1810 verkauft. Das erste fuenf
  Kinder werden bis 1809 in Durbach, Baden getauft. Die letzten drei in
  Karlsdorf. Mit dem juengsten Kind Josef, geb. 1816, geht meine
  Familienlinie in Karlsdorf weiter.
  Tod 31.10.1828 Karlsdorf, Banat, Vojvodina
  (Quelle: Petri, Anton Peter, Herkunftsorte der Karlsdorfer Kolonisten
  (=Neue Banater Buecherei XII), Muehldorf/ Inn 1984 -
  ab S. 11ff "Festgestellte Herkunftsorte bzw. -gebiete, hier: S. 14
  "Trautmann, Philipp, Offenbach, Kreis Offenbach, Baden-Wuerttemberg,
  geb. 1767, gest. 31.10.1828";
  hierauf verweist auch Stefan Stadler in seinem Sammelwerk
  donauschwaebischer Kolonisten, Teil VIII, S. 155, Nr. 57346
  S. 155)


  Die Herkunft der Familie ENGLER ist nicht gesichert. Es besteht die
  Moeglichkeit, dass der erste Kolonist Michael ENGLER, geb. 23.09.1692
  Allensbach, nordwestlich von Konstanz, gest. 1739 Werschetz/ Banat
  (auch gefuehrt als Joh. Michael Englert) war. (Quelle: Stadler, Teil
  II, S. 90, Nr. 10679). Ob er aber der Vater von Josef Engler(th) war,
  dessen Sohn  Ignatz ENGLER, geb. 03.12.1736 als erster im Taufregister
  von Werschetz nachweisbar ist, ist unklar. Sein Sohn Rochus ENGLER ist
  der erste dieser Familie, der in Karlsdorf ansaessig wird:

  Rochus ENGLER,

  Taufe 15.08.1762 Werschetz [Quelle: Online-Ortsfamilienbuch Werschetz,
  Ortsfamilienbuch Werschetz: Rochus ENGLERT, geb. 1762
  z&ID=I3453&nachname=Englert&lang=de]] ,

  Tod 02.09.1811 Karlsdorf [Quelle: Sterberegister des Kirchenbuchs von
  Karlsdorf, 1801-1820 (nicht bis 1832!) -
  etails?page=1&place=3412648&rmsId=TH-909-74345-73775-90&imageIndex=249&
  singleView=true]]

  Weitere Quelle: Felix Milleker, Geschichte der Gemeinde Banatski
  Karlovac (Karlsdorf) 1803 - 1934, Wrschatz 1934, S. 50 ("Ausweis der
  ersten Haus- und Grundbesitzer laut Grundbuch vom Jahre 1808"):
  "Haus-Nr. 142, Rochus Engler, Grundbuecherl. Besitz: 27 Joch, 1.023
  Klafter"; Herkunftsort nicht verzeichnet.


  Bei den Familien HAUSER (verschiedene Moeglichkeiten) und LAMBERT
  (verschiedene Moeglichkeiten) konnte ich die von Anton Petri
  angegebenen Herkunftorte noch nicht verifizieren.

  Meine HAUSER-Linie beginnt mit Conrad HAUS(Z)ER, geb. ca. 1795,
  Heirat 06.11.1815 in Karlsdorf mit Christina Hannack, aus Karlsdorf,
  geb. ca. 1798
  Quelle: Kirchenbuch Karlsdorf: Eheschliessungen 03.02.1805 -
  11.06.1832, [Mikrofilm der Bibliothek des Instituts fuer
  Auslandsbeziehungen (IfA), Stuttgart (Bibliotheks-Sigel: 212) -
  Signatur: Mf - Kb 50.1-2]
  Die Eltern sind leider nicht angegeben, so dass nicht nachvollziehbar
  ist, ob Conrad der Sohn von Josef HAUSER ist.

  Quellen zu Josef HAUSER:
    * Petri, Anton Peter, Herkunftsorte der Karlsdorfer Kolonisten (=Neue
      Banater Buecherei XII), Muehldorf/ Inn 1984 - "Festgestellte
      Herkunftsorte bzw. -gebiete, S. 11ff: "Hauser, Josef, Fautenbach,
      Kr. Bruehl, Baden-Wuerttemberg, geb. 1769, gest. 25.01.1829",
      heute: 77855 Achern". Dieser Josef HAUSER ist bei Stader, Teil III,
      nicht verzeichnet. Hier bleibt mir nur die Recherche in den
      Kirchenbuechern von Fautenbach fortzusetzen (leider nicht online,
      soweit ich es ueberblicke). Aber diser Herkunftsort ist keinesfalls
      gesichert.

  Die folgende Quelle verzeichnet "Essingen" als Herkunftsort fuer
  HAUSER. Dabei bleibt aber offen, ob wirklich Josef HAUSER gemeint ist,
  zumal auch ein Jakob HAUSER verzeichnet ist, der laut Anton Petri aus
  Essingen stammt:
    * Milleker, Felix, Geschichte der Gemeinde Banatski Karlovac
      (Karlsdorf) 1803 - 1934, Wrschatz 1934 - "Consignation ueber
      nachstehende zur Ansiedlung nach Carlsdorf bestimmte neue
      Reichsfamilien", S. 37 ff, hier: S. 38 "Consignation ueber
      nachstehende zur Ansiedlung nach Carlsdorf bestimmten neuen
      Reichs-Familien als": "Compagnie: Kengyel, Station: Homolitz, Name
      der Familien-Haeupter: Josef Hauser, eigene Familien: 1"

    * Milleker, Felix, Geschichte der Gemeinde Banatski Karlovac
      (Karlsdorf) 1803 - 1934, Wrschatz 1934 - "Ausweis der ersten Haus-
      und Grundbesitzer laut Grundbuch vom Jahre 1808", S. 43 ff,
      hier: S. 43 "Ausweis der ersten Haus- und Grundbesitzer laut
      Grundbuch vom Jahre 1808": "Haus-Nr. 5, Josef Hauser,
      Grundbuecherl. Besitz: 27 Joch, 21 Klafter"; S. 53 "Herkunftsorte
      der Karlovacer": "Hauser: Essingen".

    * Petri, Anton Peter, Herkunftsorte der Karlsdorfer Kolonisten (=Neue
      Banater Buecherei XII), Muehldorf/ Inn 1984 - "Festgestellte
      Herkunftsorte bzw. -gebiete, S. 11ff:, hier: S. 11 "Festgestellte
      Herkunftsorte bzw. -gebiete": Hauser, Jakob, Essingen, Kr. Aalen,
      Baden-Wuerttemberg, geb. 1757, gest. 26.05.1806.

  Darueber hinaus gibt es in den Kirchenbuechern noch Hinweise auf einen
    * Xaver HAUSER, geb. ?, gest. vor 1818, verheiratet mit Maria, am
      20.01.1818 wiederverheiratete PIEGLER (Witwer, Kolonist, geb. ca.
      1756), Sohn Bernhard HAUSER, geb. ca. 1807 und einen
    * Johannes Hauser, geb. ca. 1771, gest. 01.05.1811 Karlsdorf
      (Kirchenbuch, Sterbefaelle)
    * Heirat:  Christina ... , geb. ca. 1770,
      wiederverheiratet am 20.08.1811 in Karlsdorf mit Johannes WALZ,
      geb. ca. 1769, Hinweis im Heiratsregister zu Christina "viduam
      relictam defuncti Johannis HAUSZER Cauponis Petrovosellensi" (Witwe
      des verstorbenen Johannes HAUSZER, Wirt/ Wirtshausbesitzer in/aus
      [?] Petrovo Selo), Hinweis zu Johannes Walz: "Pistorum sodalem ex
      imperio Gunderlebio pago pones Herbipolim" (Muellergeselle aus dem
      [Hl. Roem.] Reich [deutscher Nation] Guentersleben, Dorf bei
      Wuerzburg (Herbipolis = Uebersetzung ins Lateinisch-Griechische
      fuer "Kraeuterstadt") ist der seit dem Mittelalter latinisierte
      Name fuer [7]Wuerzburg. Der Name wurde wahrscheinlich als
      Latinisierung des mittelhochdeutschen "Wirceburgum", als Name fuer
      Gewuerz(-pflanzen) verstanden, verwendet und ist (als Adjektiv
      "Herbipolensis") seit dem 11. Jahrhundert
      belegt. Quelle: [8]Herbipolis - WuerzburgWiki
      (wuerzburgwiki.de) [9]https://wuerzburgwiki.de/wiki/Herbipolis


  Zur Familie LAMBERT:

  Philipp LAMBERT ist der erste in Karlsdorf geborene dieser
  Familienlinie, Taufe 11.08.1815 Kirchenbuch Karlsdorf. Er ist der Sohn
  von Mathias LAMBERT, Stiefsohn von Joseph TISCHLER, und dessen Ehefrau
  Barbara, geb. HUDER, Heirat 12.02.1811 in Karlsdorf (Kirchenbuch
  Eheschliessungen). Wo Mathias ca. 1789 geboren wurde ist unklar.
  Barbara Huder wurde ca. 1793 in Werschetz geboren (bisher nicht
  verifiziert)


  In den einschlaegigen Quellen wird Mathias LAMBERT nicht als Kolonist
  gefuehrt, daher kommt auch ein Zuzug aus einem anderen Ort aus dem
  Umkreis wie beispielsweise Werschetz in Betracht. Stattdessen sind
  folgende Personen in den Quellen zu finden:
    * Peter LAMBERT, geb. ca. 1764, siehe Felix Milleker, Geschichte der
      Gemeinde Banatski Karlovac (Karlsdorf) 1803 - 1934, Wrschatz 1934,
      S. 47 "Ausweis der ersten Haus- und Grundbesitzer laut Grundbuch
      vom Jahre 1808": "Haus-Nr. 70, Peter Lambert, Grundbuecherl.
      Besitz: 35 Joch, 850 Klafter"; S. 54 "Herkunftsorte der
      Karlovacer": "Lambert: Karlsdorf, Baden"
          + Heirat 1: Margaretha, geb. ca. 1763, gest. 02.01.1809
            Karlsdorf, siehe Anton Peter Petri, Herkunftsorte der
            Karlsdorfer Kolonisten (=Neue Banater Buecherei XII),
            Muehldorf/ Inn 1984, S. 12 "Festgestellte Herkunftsorte bzw.
            -gebiete": Lambert, Margaretha, Reicholzheim, Kr. Wertheim,
            Hessen, geb. 1763, gest. 02.01.1809
          + Heirat 2: 05.03.1810 Margaretha, Witwe von Johannes Trisz,
            geb. ca. 1756, gest. vor 1820 [Kirchenbuch Karlsdorf -
            Heiraten 1805-1832]
          + Heirat 3: 10.02.1820 Maria Anna Madescheck, Witwe aus
            Karlsdorf, geb. ca. 1767 [Heiraten 1805-1832]
    * Nikolaus LAMBERT [LOMBAR, Eintrag zur Heirat von Stiefsohn Johannes
      BENE], geb. ?, gest. ?, siehe Felix Milleker, Geschichte der
      Gemeinde Banatski Karlovac (Karlsdorf) 1803 - 1934, Wrschatz 1934,
      S. 48 "Ausweis der ersten Haus- und Grundbesitzer laut Grundbuch
      vom Jahre 1808": "Haus-Nr. 98, Nikolaus Lambert, Grundbuecherl.
      Besitz: 27 Joch, 286 Klafter"; S. 54 "Herkunftsorte der
      Karlovacer": "Lambert: Karlsdorf, Baden"
          + 1. Heirat: ?
          + 2. Heirat: ... BENE (Witwe)
              o Stiefsohn:  Johannes BENE, Heirat: 14.10.1811 Karlsdorf:
                Eva SCHWARZ

    * Jakob Lamberth, geb. 1787 Rottweil, gest. 19.12.1822, siehe Anton
      Peter Petri, Herkunftsorte der Karlsdorfer Kolonisten (=Neue
      Banater Buecherei XII), Muehldorf/ Inn 1984, S. 12 "Festgestellte
      Herkunftsorte bzw. -gebiete": Lamberth, Jakob, Rottweil, Kr.
      Rottweil, Baden-Wuerttemberg oder Rottweil, Kr. Freiburg,
      Baden-Wuerttemberg, geb. 1787, gest. 19.12.1822

  Nun ist eine ganze Abhandlung daraus geworden. Ich hoffe der Text ist
  nicht zu verwirrend. Aber ich denke bei der umfangreichen Faktenlage
  ist es hilfreich auch die jeweilige Quelle zu kennen.


  Herzliche Gruesse

  Sabine (Ruks) aus Berlin

References

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