Date   

Re: Banaters in St Louis

Shannon Frauenhoffer
 

Dave,

Thank you for bringing this book to light. My husband’s paternal great grandfather immigrated to St. Louis from St. Hubert. He tragically died from influenza during the outbreak in 1918, at the age of 27, leaving behind two very young children. The family knows very little about him and his traditions so I will be interested to read this book. This group has been a tremendous and invaluable help during my journey to learn more about my husband’s family.

Shannon Frauenhoffer


On Jun 5, 2021, at 11:32 PM, Dave Dreyer <ddreyer@...> wrote:



With thanks to my coauthor, Josette Hatter, I recently received a copy of the newly published work entitled "The names of John Gergen"----subtitled "Immigrant Identities in the Early Twentieth-Century St. Louis", by Benjamin Moore (2021, Univ of Missouri Press, $50).   The work tracks the life of an infant, John, born in Gr St Nikolaus. who was brought by his father to St Louis.  The kid was shortly returned to the Banat in the care of a relative and, in turn, back to St Louis by his mother with his two siblings..  The three siblings were left in the care of extended family members (mainly from Billed) and their mother more or less disappears from the picture.
The author carefully documents these events using American records, as well as discussions of  the nature of the Banat community of St Louis in which John  grows up, especially the education system and how it accommodates the German immigrant community.  There is no direct evidence of how John feels about the institutions which shape his development in his new home.  
The author apparently ignores the rich trove of Banat records available from the German Banat community in Germany which would allow some judgement on comparison with that in St Louis.  Did they still celebrate the Kirchwieh, did anyone bring their Tracht to the New World, was Sunday afternoon card playing an institution among the older men?  Among the Banat resources would be the Heimat books which have been published for most Banat localities.   The HOGs of Banat are another possible source of background information.  Many HOGs publish an annual "Kalender". The Billed "Billeder Heimatblatt" is an especially beautifully illustrated and produced annual publication of almost 200 pages.  Between the 2018 and 2019 issues one can count about a half dozen Gergen families as Billed HOG members. What might they have contributed to the story? 
Moore's work likely will be of special interests to St Louis Banaters.
It is not obvious what conclusions the author has drawn from his study.  The frequent changes of address in the same St Louis neighborhood suggest some degree of domestic turmoil.  In short, a stark account of the reviewers experience here in San Mateo will illustrate the problem.  A German immigrate friend (not a Banater) once remarked to me, "My life is such a mess.  My wife is unhappy here and wants to return to Germany.,  My kids say, No way!  We're staying here!  He explained, I don't care, I can live in either place".  After some months I never saw him so they apparently solved their problem. 
With one foot in the old Heimat and the other in a new, far different challenging home, there would have been more then enough opportunity for family discord, not just for him but among the relatives John  lived with. 
These questions aside, Moore has demonstrated the possibilities to reconstruct the relationships among Banaters locally as they settle in a New World locality.  It is easy enough to pick out the Banaters from the U. S. census since they speak German but come from Hungary.  This leads to their records in the passenger ship manifests.  A surprising number of Banater family trees can be found in Ancestry and Family Search.  These can be fleshed out and verified with data from the appropriate Family books which are increasingly available. The details can be built up to provide a picture of the process of the formation of a new Banat community.  This would be impractical for a large place like Chicago or New York but could be work with more modest places like Mansfield, Ohio, Wyandotte, Mich or Harrisburg, Penn.  

Dave Dreyer
  


Re: Albrechtsflor Family Book Pre-order

Karoly Hajdu
 

Hi Karen,

 

I hope you are well and the covid virus has been avoided in a big arc.

 

I would like to ask how could you managed to progress with the Albrechtsflor Family book?

Do you have a scheduled release date?

 

The question is a bit silly, but can I help you with something from Budapest?

 

Best regards,

Károly

 

 

From: everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Dalton Preston via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 20 October, 2020 14:42
To: Banat.io List <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [banat] Albrechtsflor Family Book Pre-order

 

Hi Lynn,

 

The Albrechtsflor announcement was a pre-publication announcement.  I will add you to the pre-order list.  We must wait until the end of Dec. for input from Albrechtsflor descendants, so the book will not be available until early 2021.

 

When I have pricing and a release date, it will be announced on the Banat List and on the banatbooks website.

 

Best,

—Karen



On Oct 20, 2020, at 6:39 AM, Lynn Richardson <vwlady344@...> wrote:

 

I would like to order this book.  How do I go about it?

 

Sincerely,

 

Lynn Meier Richardson


 

 

 

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:08 PM David Preston <banatmailer@...> wrote:

PLEASE NOTE:

This is a MANDATORY NOTICE that is required by the GDPR (General Data Protection Rights) law in the EU.

It is to allow those with direct lineage (parents or self) born in Albrechtsflor to ask to have their families DELETED.

It is NOT a pre-order!

-- 
David Preston
Banat List Admin

 

 


-- 
Lynn Richardson

 


Banaters in St Louis

Dave Dreyer
 


With thanks to my coauthor, Josette Hatter, I recently received a copy of the newly published work entitled "The names of John Gergen"----subtitled "Immigrant Identities in the Early Twentieth-Century St. Louis", by Benjamin Moore (2021, Univ of Missouri Press, $50).   The work tracks the life of an infant, John, born in Gr St Nikolaus. who was brought by his father to St Louis.  The kid was shortly returned to the Banat in the care of a relative and, in turn, back to St Louis by his mother with his two siblings..  The three siblings were left in the care of extended family members (mainly from Billed) and their mother more or less disappears from the picture.
The author carefully documents these events using American records, as well as discussions of  the nature of the Banat community of St Louis in which John  grows up, especially the education system and how it accommodates the German immigrant community.  There is no direct evidence of how John feels about the institutions which shape his development in his new home.  
The author apparently ignores the rich trove of Banat records available from the German Banat community in Germany which would allow some judgement on comparison with that in St Louis.  Did they still celebrate the Kirchwieh, did anyone bring their Tracht to the New World, was Sunday afternoon card playing an institution among the older men?  Among the Banat resources would be the Heimat books which have been published for most Banat localities.   The HOGs of Banat are another possible source of background information.  Many HOGs publish an annual "Kalender". The Billed "Billeder Heimatblatt" is an especially beautifully illustrated and produced annual publication of almost 200 pages.  Between the 2018 and 2019 issues one can count about a half dozen Gergen families as Billed HOG members. What might they have contributed to the story? 
Moore's work likely will be of special interests to St Louis Banaters.
It is not obvious what conclusions the author has drawn from his study.  The frequent changes of address in the same St Louis neighborhood suggest some degree of domestic turmoil.  In short, a stark account of the reviewers experience here in San Mateo will illustrate the problem.  A German immigrate friend (not a Banater) once remarked to me, "My life is such a mess.  My wife is unhappy here and wants to return to Germany.,  My kids say, No way!  We're staying here!  He explained, I don't care, I can live in either place".  After some months I never saw him so they apparently solved their problem. 
With one foot in the old Heimat and the other in a new, far different challenging home, there would have been more then enough opportunity for family discord, not just for him but among the relatives John  lived with. 
These questions aside, Moore has demonstrated the possibilities to reconstruct the relationships among Banaters locally as they settle in a New World locality.  It is easy enough to pick out the Banaters from the U. S. census since they speak German but come from Hungary.  This leads to their records in the passenger ship manifests.  A surprising number of Banater family trees can be found in Ancestry and Family Search.  These can be fleshed out and verified with data from the appropriate Family books which are increasingly available. The details can be built up to provide a picture of the process of the formation of a new Banat community.  This would be impractical for a large place like Chicago or New York but could be work with more modest places like Mansfield, Ohio, Wyandotte, Mich or Harrisburg, Penn.  

Dave Dreyer
  


BANAT— Heimatbook Gertianosch

Cathy Reece
 

I’ve searched Book “Gertianosch” by Michael Mettler and discovered that this book is dedicated to Dr.Matthias Hoffman who wrote original Gy HeimatBook by title;

“Hundertfünzig Jahre deutsches Gertianosch”
Translated of title is: 150 year anniversary of Gertianosch

Suspect publishing date is 1935.

Hoping someone has this book and could give me the name of the publishing company and actual year  it was published.

If someone who has this book is wiling to determine for me if names of 18 Families who came to Gertianosch as original settlers—I would greatly appreciate it. 

I am looking specifically for my original settler with surname of “Ballauer” to determine if this family is among the original 18 families who moved from Hatzfeld in 1781 and was one of the first settlers with that group.

The Mettler book is in German— I am now returning to the beginning of his book to try to find clues for where my Ballauer family originated from.

As always many thanks for this list and for the many who have helped me piece together information on my ancestors.

Cathy


Re: Timisoara, Temesburg, Temeswar Family Books

Florian Straub
 

Hi Andy,

there is one about the Fabric district at least:
https://www.cardamina.net/artikeldetails.php?aid=377

Kind regards from cloudy Black Forest

Flo


Andrew Lengenfelder via groups.io schrieb am 05.06.2021 um 18:40:

Are there any family books for the seat of Temes (Timis) county Romania?
I know it is a large city, so it probably has more than one Catholic
church. My relatives moved there from Wojtek in the inter war period.
Or is there a city directory as there are in US cities?
Thanks,
As a side note, I've been doing genealogy for a long time, however there
are some on this news group that are way more knowledgeable then I will
ever be.
For that I am grateful, for without the help of these experts, I would
be lost.
AndyL


Timisoara, Temesburg, Temeswar Family Books

 

Are there any family books for the seat of Temes (Timis) county Romania?
I know it is a large city, so it probably has more than one Catholic church. My relatives moved there from Wojtek in the inter war period.
Or is there a city directory as there are in US cities?
Thanks,
As a side note, I've been doing genealogy for a long time, however there are some on this news group that are way more knowledgeable then I will ever be. 
For that I am grateful, for without the help of these experts, I would be lost.
AndyL


Re: Jahrmarkt Lookup

 

Cher Mike,

Katharina SCHMITT had half-brother and half-sisters in Banat.
Her father, Nicolas SCHMITT xx Barbe HOUPERT in 1756 and had 2 daughters and 1 son. The whole family emigrated to Banat.
You'll find details on the very good Geneanet file managed by Andras KAHLESZ
I don't know if Andras is a member of this list but he is for sure a member of the Facebook group "Lorrains du Banat".

About Picardy this is not a part of Lorraine but a distinct province of France near the border with Eastern Belgium.
At the end of the 30 Years War, lot of inhabitants of Picardy emigrated to Lorraine where the was plenty of of abandoned farms.
The RASILIER family did this journey from "La Bouteille" to "Val de Gueblange" and "Wentzwiller". This was probably in 1697-1698.
2 generations later, the descendants made the trip to Banat.
And 5 generations later, some descendants emigrated to USA! And since they spoke German when they arrived, they were called Hungarian-Germans.

Daniel


De : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> de la part de Michael Scholz <Mikey.berns@...>
Envoyé : samedi 5 juin 2021 11:26
À : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [banat] Jahrmarkt Lookup
 
Thanks Daniel as always you have been very helpful. I was aware that Johann and Anna Katharine came from the Lorraine area but never knew the specific area, Picardy
What I was hoping to find in the Jahrmarkt FB is the death date for Katharina Falck, and whether Katharina Schmidt had any family ithere.
Thanks again 
Mike Scholz.


On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Daniel Hilaire <danielhilaire@...> wrote:
Bonjour Michael,

Johann and Katharina are both originated from Lorraine.

But, before Lorraine, the RASILIER family was living in Picardy.

Don't hesitate if you need more information,

Daniel
"Lorrains du Banat"
Lorrains du Banat has 437 members. Ce groupe est un lieu d'échanges entre tous ceux qui s'intéressent à l'émigration des familles lorraines au Banat, durant le 18ème siècle. Les descendants de ces...



De : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> de la part de Michael Scholz <Mikey.berns@...>
Envoyé : vendredi 4 juin 2021 00:28
À : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Objet : [banat] Jahrmarkt Lookup
 

Hi everyone looking for some help on the following
 From the Ostern FB... Johann Jakob Rasilier (Larslier) b: abt 1739 immigrated to Jahrmarkt in 1770 with 1st wife Anna Karharina Falck who died  before June 1771
Married 2nd wife Katharina Schmidt  b: abt 1742  m: 22 june 1771 in Jahrmarkt
Both surnames Schmidt and Larslier appear in the Jahrmarkt family name index
any information  hopefully parents , birth place and siblings would be great.
scans appriciated.
Thanks
Mike Scholz






Re: Jahrmarkt Lookup

 

Thanks Daniel as always you have been very helpful. I was aware that Johann and Anna Katharine came from the Lorraine area but never knew the specific area, Picardy
What I was hoping to find in the Jahrmarkt FB is the death date for Katharina Falck, and whether Katharina Schmidt had any family ithere.
Thanks again 
Mike Scholz.


On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Daniel Hilaire <danielhilaire@...> wrote:
Bonjour Michael,

Johann and Katharina are both originated from Lorraine.

But, before Lorraine, the RASILIER family was living in Picardy.

Don't hesitate if you need more information,

Daniel
"Lorrains du Banat"
Lorrains du Banat has 437 members. Ce groupe est un lieu d'échanges entre tous ceux qui s'intéressent à l'émigration des familles lorraines au Banat, durant le 18ème siècle. Les descendants de ces...



De : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> de la part de Michael Scholz <Mikey.berns@...>
Envoyé : vendredi 4 juin 2021 00:28
À : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Objet : [banat] Jahrmarkt Lookup
 

Hi everyone looking for some help on the following
 From the Ostern FB... Johann Jakob Rasilier (Larslier) b: abt 1739 immigrated to Jahrmarkt in 1770 with 1st wife Anna Karharina Falck who died  before June 1771
Married 2nd wife Katharina Schmidt  b: abt 1742  m: 22 june 1771 in Jahrmarkt
Both surnames Schmidt and Larslier appear in the Jahrmarkt family name index
any information  hopefully parents , birth place and siblings would be great.
scans appriciated.
Thanks
Mike Scholz






Re: "L'émigration des lorrains vers le Banat et la Batschka au 18ème sièc

Philipp Gerhardt
 

I wouldn't say that they did not go through Vienna! There is only a problem with identifying Heinrich LENGENFELDER as a child of Johann Peter (Marienfeld No. 1771). If you consider that Johann *29.06.1790 was born on the same day when the older son Johann died at the age of 1 year, with a little fantasy one can imagine that the pastor mixed up the names, and the one who was born 1790 should be called "Heinrich". He died in Lowrin on May 12, 1829, allegedly at the age of 40 years - rounding up a bit was normal!
If you also consider that the difference of the ages of Johann Peter LENGFELDER (he died 1831 at the age of 78 years - not 72 as given in FB Marienfeld -, then he should have been born around 1753) and his wife (born around 1766) would be quite large, one could also imagine that the pastor made a miscalculation and he was only 68 years old, then he could be identified as the son of Johann LANGENFELD (Stader No. 30447 = WK 32/70): Joh. Peter *16.06.1763 in Schwarzenbach. They went through Vienna on May 28, 1764. 

Philipp


Re: "L'émigration des lorrains vers le Banat et la Batschka au 18ème sièc

 

Thank you Phillip, apparently my Lengenfelder relatives did not go through Vienna.
AndyL


Re: Banat--Gertianosch Heimat Book--Hoffman 1935

Cathy Reece
 

To all, correction: I may have the Hoffman Gy book— translation problems— this Hoffman”Gertianosch”book is where it states the info about dialect spoken in Gy.  1963 publishing date.
Is there another book by Hoffman published in 1935?

Many thanks, 

Cathy

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 11:02 AM Cathy Reece via groups.io <cre29ece=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

i'm hoping someone has information on the Gertianosch Heimat book 1935 by Hoffman. Does anyone know the exact name of the book and exact spelling of author first and last nameAlso need to know the publisher.

I am seeking the names of the first 18 families from Hatzfeld who originally settled in this village. I am particularly looking for the name Ballauer in this group of 18 families.

Would  anyone on this list who has the book be willing to loan it to me or have any idea if this book is in any library that could be borrowed on interlibrary loan?

Also, in Mettler book it states that the Germans in Gertianosch spoke a dialect that was "rhein fraenkische  with a distinctive touch of the Palatinate". the examples in the Mettler book are of a language which is definitely not "Hochdeutsch". To satisfy my curiosity--did the people, who came from Gertianosch in  early 1900's to USA speak this dialect.  It looks more Dutch to me than German ,but I am not familiar with Dutch.
No wonder they went to certain cities--I suspect other Germans could not understand them.

My distant cousin Carla,who I met on this list was kind enough to loan me the Mettler book.Thank you Carla!

 This list is so wonderful!!!

Sincerely,
Cathy



Banat--Gertianosch Heimat Book--Hoffman 1935

Cathy Reece
 


i'm hoping someone has information on the Gertianosch Heimat book 1935 by Hoffman. Does anyone know the exact name of the book and exact spelling of author first and last nameAlso need to know the publisher.

I am seeking the names of the first 18 families from Hatzfeld who originally settled in this village. I am particularly looking for the name Ballauer in this group of 18 families.

Would  anyone on this list who has the book be willing to loan it to me or have any idea if this book is in any library that could be borrowed on interlibrary loan?

Also, in Mettler book it states that the Germans in Gertianosch spoke a dialect that was "rhein fraenkische  with a distinctive touch of the Palatinate". the examples in the Mettler book are of a language which is definitely not "Hochdeutsch". To satisfy my curiosity--did the people, who came from Gertianosch in  early 1900's to USA speak this dialect.  It looks more Dutch to me than German ,but I am not familiar with Dutch.
No wonder they went to certain cities--I suspect other Germans could not understand them.

My distant cousin Carla,who I met on this list was kind enough to loan me the Mettler book.Thank you Carla!

 This list is so wonderful!!!

Sincerely,
Cathy



Re: "L'émigration des lorrains vers le Banat et la Batschka au 18ème sièc

Philipp Gerhardt
 

There is only one entry in Charles AMANN's book: Anne-Marie LANGELFELD *1729 in Keskastel.

The name LENGENFELD is otherwise not known in the Lorraine, but seems to be concentrated in the Palatinate/Saar. There is a Johann LANGENFELD in Stader (No.30447) from Remmesweiler (south-west of St.Wendel/Saar) who came to Perjamosch, not known if he is related to the LENGENFELDERs in Lenauheim with unknown origin. But Lenauheim seems to be the origin of Heinrich LENGFELDER in Marienfeld (see FB Marienfeld of Philipp LUNG, No.1772) who married Anna Maria SCHÄFER. Her first name and parents could be wrong - see remark of Philipp LUNG, page 236 (FB Marienfeld - "Angaben, die so nicht stimmen").

 

Regards,

Philipp Gerhardt

 

 

 

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: [banat] "L'émigration des lorrains vers le Banat et la Batschka au 18ème sièc

Datum: 2021-06-03T21:09:09+0200

Von: "Andrew Lengenfelder via groups.io" <andyl1937@...>

An: "everybody@banat.groups.io" <everybody@banat.groups.io>

 

 

 

Hi, can somebody check the Lorraines du Banat book by Charles Amman. I don't need pictures but I would like to know if my families are mentioned in the book before I buy it.
Currently 80 euros plus 45 euros shipping.
Looking for families: Lazarus, Meyer, Krebs, Lengenfelder.

Thanks a bunch,
AndyLengenfelder



Re: Kowatschi - look-up

Rudolf Huepfl
 

Thank you Dave, this completes my research on the Hupfel family in Kowatschi.
Rudolf


Re: Jahrmarkt Lookup

 

Bonjour Michael,

Johann and Katharina are both originated from Lorraine.

But, before Lorraine, the RASILIER family was living in Picardy.

Don't hesitate if you need more information,

Daniel
"Lorrains du Banat"
Lorrains du Banat has 437 members. Ce groupe est un lieu d'échanges entre tous ceux qui s'intéressent à l'émigration des familles lorraines au Banat, durant le 18ème siècle. Les descendants de ces...
www.facebook.com



De : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io> de la part de Michael Scholz <Mikey.berns@...>
Envoyé : vendredi 4 juin 2021 00:28
À : everybody@banat.groups.io <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Objet : [banat] Jahrmarkt Lookup
 

Hi everyone looking for some help on the following
 From the Ostern FB... Johann Jakob Rasilier (Larslier) b: abt 1739 immigrated to Jahrmarkt in 1770 with 1st wife Anna Karharina Falck who died  before June 1771
Married 2nd wife Katharina Schmidt  b: abt 1742  m: 22 june 1771 in Jahrmarkt
Both surnames Schmidt and Larslier appear in the Jahrmarkt family name index
any information  hopefully parents , birth place and siblings would be great.
scans appriciated.
Thanks
Mike Scholz






Re: girl's name

Stephen B
 

Without seeing the entries, it is hard to provide any guidance or analysis.
I have not come across anyone named Peteristurn, but that alone doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The more likely scenario, it should probably read "Peter istum".  Istum is latin for "this".
I would interpret it to mean "this Peter".

On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 9:53 PM Kogaylene Ruddick <kdruddick@...> wrote:


From: Kogaylene Ruddick <kdruddick@...>
Subject: girl's name
Date: June 3, 2021 at 6:33:57 PM PDT
To: Banat Mailing List <Banat@...>


Hello,
I have a relative born 1899 and some places I see her name recorded as Peteristurn and other
places Christina.  Her fathers name was Peter - could this be a female form of Peter??
Kogaylene



Re: Lowrin FB

John Berglund
 

There is no FB after 1840 that has been published. The book 1772-1840 is out of print.
I had to hire a researcher to find anything. 

John Berglund



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: W David Samuelsen <sammyslc@...>
Date: 2021-06-03 21:59 (GMT-05:00)
To: everybody@banat.groups.io
Subject: [banat] Lowrin FB

Has any FB been published for Lowrin after 1840 ?

David Samuelsen, hunting for descendants from Britten, Germany


Lowrin FB

W David Samuelsen
 

Has any FB been published for Lowrin after 1840 ?

David Samuelsen, hunting for descendants from Britten, Germany


girl's name

Kogaylene Ruddick
 



From: Kogaylene Ruddick <kdruddick@...>
Subject: girl's name
Date: June 3, 2021 at 6:33:57 PM PDT
To: Banat Mailing List <Banat@...>


Hello,
I have a relative born 1899 and some places I see her name recorded as Peteristurn and other
places Christina.  Her fathers name was Peter - could this be a female form of Peter??
Kogaylene



Re: Kowatschi - look-up

Dave Dreyer
 

Rudolf

Sterbling Nikolaus, son of Josef Sterbling and Magd Frank
*28 Jun 1903 Kowatsch                     +21 Mar 1945 Stalino Ukraine
oo20 Nov 1928 Kowatsch
Huepfel Katharina, dau of Michael Huepfel and Kath Weldi
*19 Nov 1906 Kowatsch                     +18 May 1990 Nordheim
1 Margaretha               *2 Jul 1930 Kowatsch         oo Josef Schwerb


Dave Dreyer

On Thursday, June 3, 2021, 06:26:33 AM PDT, Rudolf Huepfl via groups.io <huepfl@...> wrote:


Dear all, Thanks to your support, especially Dave, Ron and Tim, I could add a number of dispersed Hupfel into my tree. When going into the details, I have to admit, there is one more detail which I could not solve without the new family book of Kowatschi/Covacsi.
May be somebody could be so kind and copy/scan the following details for me:
 -  family 1455 Nikolaus Sterbling and Katharina Hupfel/Hipfl
I have asked for this family before, but no positiv answer came until now.
Best regards Rudolf Huepfl

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