Date   

Re: Gottlob look-up request: REITER

Trish Stumpf Garcia
 

Joe, thank you so much!  This is perfect.

Cheers,
Trish :)

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 3:12 PM Joseph Matye <joematye@...> wrote:
Here is the entry for 5001, let me know if you need more.

Joe Matye



On Oct 22, 2021, at 5:05 PM, Trish Stumpf Garcia <stumpf.garcia@...> wrote:

Hello,

I am hoping for a family in the Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Gottlob im Banat 1773-1990 by Nikolaus Horn.  I need family no. 5001.  It should be Peter REITER and his wife Anna Maria SIEBERT, but may be spelled differently.  This is the family number referred to their daughter's information in another family with her husband (Family no. 5878), which I have.  

I hope someone has this family book.  Many thanks in advance.

Trish :)


Re: Gottlob look-up request: REITER

Joseph Matye
 

Here is the entry for 5001, let me know if you need more.

Joe Matye



On Oct 22, 2021, at 5:05 PM, Trish Stumpf Garcia <stumpf.garcia@...> wrote:

Hello,

I am hoping for a family in the Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Gottlob im Banat 1773-1990 by Nikolaus Horn.  I need family no. 5001.  It should be Peter REITER and his wife Anna Maria SIEBERT, but may be spelled differently.  This is the family number referred to their daughter's information in another family with her husband (Family no. 5878), which I have.  

I hope someone has this family book.  Many thanks in advance.

Trish :)


Gottlob look-up request: REITER

Trish Stumpf Garcia
 

Hello,

I am hoping for a family in the Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Gottlob im Banat 1773-1990 by Nikolaus Horn.  I need family no. 5001.  It should be Peter REITER and his wife Anna Maria SIEBERT, but may be spelled differently.  This is the family number referred to their daughter's information in another family with her husband (Family no. 5878), which I have.  

I hope someone has this family book.  Many thanks in advance.

Trish :)


Re: St. Hubert lookup: Pilesz *1908

 

Hi Flo,

Greetings from stormy Napa Valley (where we are VERY happy to see some rain, finally).

Your Barbara Pilesz shows up in St. Hubert, but the path back into time leads to Bogarosch.  I will look at the latter FB and send you what I find from there and St. Hubert.

Mit fruendlisch Gruessen,

Bill

William Knuttel
Arcana, LLC, dba the wines of:
William Knuttel/Knuttel Family/Zinfinity/Tentadora
Winery: 21684 Eighth Street East, Suite 600, Sonoma, CA 95476
Mailing: P.O. Box 10787, Napa, CA 94581
707-326-8234 cell
wknuttel@...
www.williamknuttel.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Florian Straub <Flominator@...>
To: Banat-L <everybody@banat.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 11:29 am
Subject: [banat] St. Hubert lookup: Pilesz *1908


Dear all,

From Tschawosch family book #689 I've learned, that there was a Barbara
Paula Pilesz born a Barbara Pilesz on 17 March 1908 in St. Hubert.

I'm curious if there is any trace of her or other family members (maybe
also written Billes, Büllösch ...) in the two St. Hubert books until
1835 and until 1943?

Thanks in advance and kind regards from stormy Black Forest

Flo






Re: St. Hubert lookup: Pilesz *1908

Liz Belcher
 


On Oct 21, 2021 2:29 PM, Florian Straub <Flominator@...> wrote:


Dear all,

From Tschawosch family book #689 I've learned, that there was a Barbara
Paula Pilesz born a Barbara Pilesz on 17 March 1908 in St. Hubert.

I'm curious if there is any trace of her or other family members (maybe
also written Billes, Büllösch ...) in the two St. Hubert books until
1835 and until 1943?

Thanks in advance and kind regards from stormy Black Forest

Flo







Re: St. Hubert lookup: Pilesz *1908

Liz Belcher
 


On Oct 21, 2021 2:29 PM, Florian Straub <Flominator@...> wrote:


Dear all,

From Tschawosch family book #689 I've learned, that there was a Barbara
Paula Pilesz born a Barbara Pilesz on 17 March 1908 in St. Hubert.

I'm curious if there is any trace of her or other family members (maybe
also written Billes, Büllösch ...) in the two St. Hubert books until
1835 and until 1943?

Thanks in advance and kind regards from stormy Black Forest

Flo







St. Hubert lookup: Pilesz *1908

Florian Straub
 

Dear all,

From Tschawosch family book #689 I've learned, that there was a Barbara
Paula Pilesz born a Barbara Pilesz on 17 March 1908 in St. Hubert.

I'm curious if there is any trace of her or other family members (maybe
also written Billes, Büllösch ...) in the two St. Hubert books until
1835 and until 1943?

Thanks in advance and kind regards from stormy Black Forest

Flo


Re: Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

Dave Dreyer
 

David S.,

Although the Office of the  Kroatian archives may be located in Zagrab I would bet that the actual manifests are still located in Fiume.   The palace like building overlooking the water front from which emigrant shipping was managed still functions as a government  depository when I was there in about 2000.   I would hazard that the arrangements are much the same as in many other countries.  For example the last word on Banat records in Romanian archives was in Buceresti even though the actual records are located in Temeswar.  The U.S. is no exception-----I spent many days in the local branch of the National Archives in San Bruno Calif looking at passenger ship records even though that branch specialized in records of Jap interment and indian treaty records.  Of course things change especially in the last decade with the influence of the EU. 

Dave Dreyer


On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 02:06:23 AM PDT, Rudolf Huepfl via groups.io <huepfl@...> wrote:


Ron, I fully agree with what has been already mentioned by Dave and David. What has helped me a lot in such cases were traveling documents released by US offices for such visits to the old homelands.
However, many of our Banaters spent only short time in the States to get some additional money for wedding and/our house construction; other found live in the States not suitable for them. Then we have the organisers who travelled foreward and back, each time to bring other falily members and friends and finally the returners to fight for the Emperor and later for Hitler. Unfortunately, there is little data available on such returners. It would facilitate a number of mixed-up data in many family trees.
Rudolf


Re: Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

Rudolf Huepfl
 

Ron, I fully agree with what has been already mentioned by Dave and David. What has helped me a lot in such cases were traveling documents released by US offices for such visits to the old homelands.
However, many of our Banaters spent only short time in the States to get some additional money for wedding and/our house construction; other found live in the States not suitable for them. Then we have the organisers who travelled foreward and back, each time to bring other falily members and friends and finally the returners to fight for the Emperor and later for Hitler. Unfortunately, there is little data available on such returners. It would facilitate a number of mixed-up data in many family trees.
Rudolf


Re: Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

W David Samuelsen
 

Here's the site address of Croatian State Archives


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 12:16 AM W David Samuelsen via groups.io <sammyslc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
If there were any records for Fiume, now named Rijeka, they would be kept at Croatian State Archives in Zagreb.  They have easy email contact info.  I contacted them about a puzzle problem I was having for a certain city and discovered the set of records was mislabeled and since corrected in FamilySearch catalog. FamilySearch International did a lot of microfilming before there was a conversion to digital format.

DAvid Samuelsen



On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 10:18 PM Dave Dreyer <ddreyer@...> wrote:
Ron,

There is a category of records on Ancestry entitled, as I recall, "UK arrivals".  it was not unusual for Banaters to return vis Liverpool or Southampton and then continued via a channel crossing.  Perhaps it was cheaper by this route.
Otherwise I do not know of any European arrival records.
There are Fiume departure records but these are not generally available.  There is a very useful article about these records in a journal published by the Sacramento genealogical Soc.  Could there also be set of Fiume records on arrivals?  
One needs to encourage Ancestry or some Genealogical Society to negotiate with the Kroatian or Fiume archives to allow these passenger ship records to be copied in their entirely.  This likely would take considerable persistence as well as funds. 

Dave Dreyer







   

On Sunday, October 17, 2021, 05:04:19 PM PDT, Ron <ronthiel10@...> wrote:


Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

 

I have used Dave Dreyers ship lists many times and still make discoveries when I use it.

It has helped me to locate the actual ship manifests for arrival of relatives in New York (1906/1907).

 

There were a number of cases in my family, where they had gone to America, stayed for 2 or three years and then returned to the Banat village they came from. I was wondering if there are any known shipping records for arrival back into the Austro-Hungarian empire ? – ie, arrival at the port of Fiume for example..

 

Since I don’t know the dates of their return (a guess, circa 1910) – this question may be a bit of a stretch, but as we know the names of the 4 Cunard ships that were travelling that route both to New York and back, I was wondering if there are any records of returning emigrants somewhere.

 

Any comments / ideas are welcome

 

Ron 😊

 


Re: Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

W David Samuelsen
 

If there were any records for Fiume, now named Rijeka, they would be kept at Croatian State Archives in Zagreb.  They have easy email contact info.  I contacted them about a puzzle problem I was having for a certain city and discovered the set of records was mislabeled and since corrected in FamilySearch catalog. FamilySearch International did a lot of microfilming before there was a conversion to digital format.

DAvid Samuelsen



On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 10:18 PM Dave Dreyer <ddreyer@...> wrote:
Ron,

There is a category of records on Ancestry entitled, as I recall, "UK arrivals".  it was not unusual for Banaters to return vis Liverpool or Southampton and then continued via a channel crossing.  Perhaps it was cheaper by this route.
Otherwise I do not know of any European arrival records.
There are Fiume departure records but these are not generally available.  There is a very useful article about these records in a journal published by the Sacramento genealogical Soc.  Could there also be set of Fiume records on arrivals?  
One needs to encourage Ancestry or some Genealogical Society to negotiate with the Kroatian or Fiume archives to allow these passenger ship records to be copied in their entirely.  This likely would take considerable persistence as well as funds. 

Dave Dreyer







   

On Sunday, October 17, 2021, 05:04:19 PM PDT, Ron <ronthiel10@...> wrote:


Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

 

I have used Dave Dreyers ship lists many times and still make discoveries when I use it.

It has helped me to locate the actual ship manifests for arrival of relatives in New York (1906/1907).

 

There were a number of cases in my family, where they had gone to America, stayed for 2 or three years and then returned to the Banat village they came from. I was wondering if there are any known shipping records for arrival back into the Austro-Hungarian empire ? – ie, arrival at the port of Fiume for example..

 

Since I don’t know the dates of their return (a guess, circa 1910) – this question may be a bit of a stretch, but as we know the names of the 4 Cunard ships that were travelling that route both to New York and back, I was wondering if there are any records of returning emigrants somewhere.

 

Any comments / ideas are welcome

 

Ron 😊

 


Re: Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

Dave Dreyer
 

Ron,

There is a category of records on Ancestry entitled, as I recall, "UK arrivals".  it was not unusual for Banaters to return vis Liverpool or Southampton and then continued via a channel crossing.  Perhaps it was cheaper by this route.
Otherwise I do not know of any European arrival records.
There are Fiume departure records but these are not generally available.  There is a very useful article about these records in a journal published by the Sacramento genealogical Soc.  Could there also be set of Fiume records on arrivals?  
One needs to encourage Ancestry or some Genealogical Society to negotiate with the Kroatian or Fiume archives to allow these passenger ship records to be copied in their entirely.  This likely would take considerable persistence as well as funds. 

Dave Dreyer







   

On Sunday, October 17, 2021, 05:04:19 PM PDT, Ron <ronthiel10@...> wrote:


Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

 

I have used Dave Dreyers ship lists many times and still make discoveries when I use it.

It has helped me to locate the actual ship manifests for arrival of relatives in New York (1906/1907).

 

There were a number of cases in my family, where they had gone to America, stayed for 2 or three years and then returned to the Banat village they came from. I was wondering if there are any known shipping records for arrival back into the Austro-Hungarian empire ? – ie, arrival at the port of Fiume for example..

 

Since I don’t know the dates of their return (a guess, circa 1910) – this question may be a bit of a stretch, but as we know the names of the 4 Cunard ships that were travelling that route both to New York and back, I was wondering if there are any records of returning emigrants somewhere.

 

Any comments / ideas are welcome

 

Ron 😊

 


Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

Ron
 

Are there any arrival records for emigrants returning to the Banat ? – pre / post WW1

 

I have used Dave Dreyers ship lists many times and still make discoveries when I use it.

It has helped me to locate the actual ship manifests for arrival of relatives in New York (1906/1907).

 

There were a number of cases in my family, where they had gone to America, stayed for 2 or three years and then returned to the Banat village they came from. I was wondering if there are any known shipping records for arrival back into the Austro-Hungarian empire ? – ie, arrival at the port of Fiume for example..

 

Since I don’t know the dates of their return (a guess, circa 1910) – this question may be a bit of a stretch, but as we know the names of the 4 Cunard ships that were travelling that route both to New York and back, I was wondering if there are any records of returning emigrants somewhere.

 

Any comments / ideas are welcome

 

Ron 😊

 


Re: Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

Betty Wagner
 

Thanks so much for this information Bill. This should keep me busy for awhile. This will help settle so much hear say with this family line.

Thanks Again
Betty Wagner


On 10/7/2021 12:20 PM, wknuttel@... wrote:
Hi Betty,

Here are the pertinent entries from the Deutsch Zerne FB, and I appended additional info below that from the Hatzfeld FB.  This will take you back quite a ways on both the Thomas and Hergatt lines!

Cheers,

Bill

11440
THOMAS Martin <11437.1>, S.v. T. Konrad und RETTMÜLLER Magdalena
*/~ 11/12.11.1862 DZ/Braxa-dominalis/DZ
Haus Nr. 37
vh K 11.10.1885 DZ (ledig, ledig, TZ ANton Stiebl, Anton Hergatt)
HERGATT Magdalena <3678.6>, T.v. H. Anton und SCHLITTER Katharina
*/~ 24.04.1865 DZ

11437
THOMAS Konrad <11434.1>, DZ, S.v. T. Konrad und LUDWIG Susanna
~ 25.08.1822 HF (Q.: FB HF 12253) +/bgr 02/04.04.1872 DZ
vh K 12.11.1860 DZ (ledig, Witwe, TZ Johann Bockmüller, Peter Feuerholz)
RETTMÜLLER Magdalena <8913.1,12449,3162>, T.v. R. Heinrich und KANTNER Anna M.
* 08.04.1831 DZ
Mieter
1. Martin */~ 11/12.11.1862 DZ/Braxa-dominalis/DZ P.: Alexander Wild, Adelheid Kiss <11440>
2. Elisabetha */~ 05/06.11.1868 DZ P.: Karl Kremer, Elisabetha Feuerholz <12580>
3. Mathias */~ 01/02.02.1871 DZ +/bgr 28/29.10.1871 DZ P.: Mathias Brenner, Katharina Hergatt

11434
THOMAS Konrad, HF, DZ
* um 1802 (Q.: FB HF 12253)
vh
LUDWIG Susanna, HF, DZ
* um 1802
1. Konrad ~ 25.08.1822 HF (Q.: FB HF 12253) <11437>

3678
HERGATT Anton <3671.3>, Taglöhner, S.v. H. Michael und SENSENDORF Theresia
* 03.08.1834 DZ + vor 1885
Mieter, Haus Nr. 122, 144, 137, 182, 51, Firmung 14.09.1845 Pate: Michael Baron
vh K 20.05.1855 DZ (ledig, ledig, TZ Anton Hergatt, Peter Erhard)
SCHLITTER Katharina
* e 1837 HF +/bgr 08/09.12.1907 DZ
1. Nikolaus */~ 23/24.10.1855 DZ P.: Nikolaus Hergatt, Anna Erhard <3688>
2. Johann */~ 23/24.05.1857 DZ +/bgr 04/05.12.1858 DZ P.: Johann Neumajer, Anna Kielberger
3. Anton */~ 24.12.1858 DZ +/bgr 25/27.10.1873 DZ P.: Anton Hergatt, Eva Schulz
4. Katharina */~ 07/08.01.1861 DZ P.: Michael Hergatt, Katharina Hergatt <11181>
5. Philipp */~ 02.01.1863 DZ + 01.12.1866 DZ P.: Philipp Hergatt, Elisabetha Fendt
6. Magdalena */~ 24.04.1865 DZ P.: Josef Fleckenstein, Magdalena Hergatt <11440>
7. Josef */~ 17.01.1870 DZ +/bgr 30.11/01.12.1873 DZ P.: Josef Sehr, Eva Lischeran

3671
HERGATT Michael
* e 1810
DZ Haus Nr. 122
vh K 17.02.1828 DZ (TZ Paul König, Kaspar Plattner)
SENSENDORF Theresia <10176.4>, T.v. S. Johann und SENSENDORF Katharina
* 24.09.1809 DZ +/bgr 13/14.10.1866 DZ
1. Susanna * 11.08.1829 DZ P.: Johann Franz, Susanna Weissmann <8218>
2. Johann * 10.05.1832 DZ P.: Johann Haasz, Elisabetha Sensendorf <3679>
3. Anton * 03.08.1834 DZ P.: Anton Hergatt, Elisabetha Weissmann <3678>
4. Peter * 16.10.1836 DZ + 23.08.1837 DZ P.: Peter Hönig, Katharina Schütz
5. Martin * 08.01.1839 DZ P.: Martin Glas, Elisabetha Hönig <3680>
6. Michael * 21.07.1841 DZ P.: Michael Baron, Anna Nauert <3674>
7. Philipp * 12.02.1844 DZ P.: Philipp Schäfer, Margaretha Kaiser <3683>
8. Peter * 30.04.1847 DZ + 02.09.1849 DZ P.: Peter Hönig, Elisabetha Schäfer

10176
SENSENDORF Johann
~ 03.02.1784 HF (Q.: FB HF 11182)
I. vh
SENSENDORF Katharina
* e 1782 (Q.: FB HF 11183) + 20.04.1816 DZ
II. vh K 30.06.1816 HF
SIMON Katharina
* um 1796 + 20.03.1818 DZ
III. vh
THIER Elisabetha
~ 10.04.1792 HF (Q.: FB HF 12223)
Kinder aus 1. Ehe
1. Margaretha ~ 06.12.1803 HF
2. Nikolaus ~ 14.09.1805 HF + 14.11.1805 DZ
3. Anna Maria ~ 05.06.1870 DZ
4. Theresia * 24.09.1809 DZ P.: Johannes, Zeimetz, Katharina Lachner <3671>
5. Anna M. * 03.03.1811 DZ + 01.12.1812 DZ P.: Johann Kampf, Anna M, Bambach
6. Nikolaus * 07.12.1812 DZ P.: Nikolaus Bambach, Anna Kampf
7. Johann * 13.10.1814 DZ + 04.05.1815 DZ P.: Johann Kampf, Katharina Kielenberger
8. Johann * 27.03.1816 DZ P.: Johann Kampf, Anna Bambach <10179>
Sohn aus 2. Ehe
9. Johann * 17.02.1817 DZ P.: Johann Ackermann, Barbara Keip
Kinder aus 3. Ehe
10. Barbara * 16.05.1819 DZ + 07.08.1823 DZ P.: Kaspar Planner, Barbara Zeimetz
11. Anna * 28.04.1821 DZ P.: Mathias Burghard, Anna Kampf <7702,12268>
12. Johann * 12.08.1823 DZ P.: Johann Wagner, Magdalena Ackermann <10180,3548>
13. Margaretha * 24.11.1826 DZ P.: Johann Winter, Margaretha Loor
14. Barbara * 13.11.1828 DZ P.: Johann Schütz, Barbara Schütz <2819>
15. Katharina * 06.06.1832 DZ + 11.09.1836 DZ P.: Valentin Hemmerth, Katharina Kielberger

From the Hatzfeld FB (the older one; be aware that much of the information in this FB is suspect, and should be confirmed with the actual records available at FamilySearch):

12253 THOMAS, Konrad
* um. .1802
LUDWIG, Susanna
* um. .1802
Kind(er)
a) Josef t 29.07.1821 Hf
+ 21.10.1821
b) Konrad t 25.08.1822 Hf
Ehe siehe <12260>
c) Magdalena t 12.08.1827 Hf
d) Mathias t 03.02.1830 Hf
+ 11.04.1830 in Hf
e) Josef t 13.06.1832 Hf
f) Josef t 29.09.1834
Ehe siehe <12264>
g) Barbara t 18.01.1835 Hf
h) Johann t um. .1836
+ 02.02.1836 in Hf
i) Johann * um. .1841
Ehe siehe <12267>



William Knuttel
Arcana, LLC, dba the wines of:
William Knuttel/Knuttel Family/Zinfinity/Tentadora
Winery: 21684 Eighth Street East, Suite 600, Sonoma, CA 95476
Mailing: P.O. Box 10787, Napa, CA 94581
707-326-8234 cell
wknuttel@...
www.williamknuttel.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wagner <banater@...>
To: everybody@banat.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2021 10:59 pm
Subject: [banat] Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

Hello:
Can someone do a lookup in Deutsch Zerne or Cenei Familienbuch for me?
Michael Thomas born in Deutsch Zerne 8 Jun, 1880 and died in Philadelphia, PA, US in 1959.
He was married to
Catharina Schraut born in Horvat Cseney (Cenei) on 20 Aug 1883 and died in Philadelphia PA, US in 1911.
I am looking for the father of Michael Thomas. I believe the father's name is either Michael Thomas or Martin Thomas and supposedly was married to a Veronica Hergot.
I am also looking for the marriage of Michael Thomas and Catharina Schraut (about 1905) most likely in Horvat Cenei.
Thank you
Betty Wagner


Re: Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

 

Hi Betty,

Here are the pertinent entries from the Deutsch Zerne FB, and I appended additional info below that from the Hatzfeld FB.  This will take you back quite a ways on both the Thomas and Hergatt lines!

Cheers,

Bill

11440
THOMAS Martin <11437.1>, S.v. T. Konrad und RETTMÜLLER Magdalena
*/~ 11/12.11.1862 DZ/Braxa-dominalis/DZ
Haus Nr. 37
vh K 11.10.1885 DZ (ledig, ledig, TZ ANton Stiebl, Anton Hergatt)
HERGATT Magdalena <3678.6>, T.v. H. Anton und SCHLITTER Katharina
*/~ 24.04.1865 DZ

11437
THOMAS Konrad <11434.1>, DZ, S.v. T. Konrad und LUDWIG Susanna
~ 25.08.1822 HF (Q.: FB HF 12253) +/bgr 02/04.04.1872 DZ
vh K 12.11.1860 DZ (ledig, Witwe, TZ Johann Bockmüller, Peter Feuerholz)
RETTMÜLLER Magdalena <8913.1,12449,3162>, T.v. R. Heinrich und KANTNER Anna M.
* 08.04.1831 DZ
Mieter
1. Martin */~ 11/12.11.1862 DZ/Braxa-dominalis/DZ P.: Alexander Wild, Adelheid Kiss <11440>
2. Elisabetha */~ 05/06.11.1868 DZ P.: Karl Kremer, Elisabetha Feuerholz <12580>
3. Mathias */~ 01/02.02.1871 DZ +/bgr 28/29.10.1871 DZ P.: Mathias Brenner, Katharina Hergatt

11434
THOMAS Konrad, HF, DZ
* um 1802 (Q.: FB HF 12253)
vh
LUDWIG Susanna, HF, DZ
* um 1802
1. Konrad ~ 25.08.1822 HF (Q.: FB HF 12253) <11437>

3678
HERGATT Anton <3671.3>, Taglöhner, S.v. H. Michael und SENSENDORF Theresia
* 03.08.1834 DZ + vor 1885
Mieter, Haus Nr. 122, 144, 137, 182, 51, Firmung 14.09.1845 Pate: Michael Baron
vh K 20.05.1855 DZ (ledig, ledig, TZ Anton Hergatt, Peter Erhard)
SCHLITTER Katharina
* e 1837 HF +/bgr 08/09.12.1907 DZ
1. Nikolaus */~ 23/24.10.1855 DZ P.: Nikolaus Hergatt, Anna Erhard <3688>
2. Johann */~ 23/24.05.1857 DZ +/bgr 04/05.12.1858 DZ P.: Johann Neumajer, Anna Kielberger
3. Anton */~ 24.12.1858 DZ +/bgr 25/27.10.1873 DZ P.: Anton Hergatt, Eva Schulz
4. Katharina */~ 07/08.01.1861 DZ P.: Michael Hergatt, Katharina Hergatt <11181>
5. Philipp */~ 02.01.1863 DZ + 01.12.1866 DZ P.: Philipp Hergatt, Elisabetha Fendt
6. Magdalena */~ 24.04.1865 DZ P.: Josef Fleckenstein, Magdalena Hergatt <11440>
7. Josef */~ 17.01.1870 DZ +/bgr 30.11/01.12.1873 DZ P.: Josef Sehr, Eva Lischeran

3671
HERGATT Michael
* e 1810
DZ Haus Nr. 122
vh K 17.02.1828 DZ (TZ Paul König, Kaspar Plattner)
SENSENDORF Theresia <10176.4>, T.v. S. Johann und SENSENDORF Katharina
* 24.09.1809 DZ +/bgr 13/14.10.1866 DZ
1. Susanna * 11.08.1829 DZ P.: Johann Franz, Susanna Weissmann <8218>
2. Johann * 10.05.1832 DZ P.: Johann Haasz, Elisabetha Sensendorf <3679>
3. Anton * 03.08.1834 DZ P.: Anton Hergatt, Elisabetha Weissmann <3678>
4. Peter * 16.10.1836 DZ + 23.08.1837 DZ P.: Peter Hönig, Katharina Schütz
5. Martin * 08.01.1839 DZ P.: Martin Glas, Elisabetha Hönig <3680>
6. Michael * 21.07.1841 DZ P.: Michael Baron, Anna Nauert <3674>
7. Philipp * 12.02.1844 DZ P.: Philipp Schäfer, Margaretha Kaiser <3683>
8. Peter * 30.04.1847 DZ + 02.09.1849 DZ P.: Peter Hönig, Elisabetha Schäfer

10176
SENSENDORF Johann
~ 03.02.1784 HF (Q.: FB HF 11182)
I. vh
SENSENDORF Katharina
* e 1782 (Q.: FB HF 11183) + 20.04.1816 DZ
II. vh K 30.06.1816 HF
SIMON Katharina
* um 1796 + 20.03.1818 DZ
III. vh
THIER Elisabetha
~ 10.04.1792 HF (Q.: FB HF 12223)
Kinder aus 1. Ehe
1. Margaretha ~ 06.12.1803 HF
2. Nikolaus ~ 14.09.1805 HF + 14.11.1805 DZ
3. Anna Maria ~ 05.06.1870 DZ
4. Theresia * 24.09.1809 DZ P.: Johannes, Zeimetz, Katharina Lachner <3671>
5. Anna M. * 03.03.1811 DZ + 01.12.1812 DZ P.: Johann Kampf, Anna M, Bambach
6. Nikolaus * 07.12.1812 DZ P.: Nikolaus Bambach, Anna Kampf
7. Johann * 13.10.1814 DZ + 04.05.1815 DZ P.: Johann Kampf, Katharina Kielenberger
8. Johann * 27.03.1816 DZ P.: Johann Kampf, Anna Bambach <10179>
Sohn aus 2. Ehe
9. Johann * 17.02.1817 DZ P.: Johann Ackermann, Barbara Keip
Kinder aus 3. Ehe
10. Barbara * 16.05.1819 DZ + 07.08.1823 DZ P.: Kaspar Planner, Barbara Zeimetz
11. Anna * 28.04.1821 DZ P.: Mathias Burghard, Anna Kampf <7702,12268>
12. Johann * 12.08.1823 DZ P.: Johann Wagner, Magdalena Ackermann <10180,3548>
13. Margaretha * 24.11.1826 DZ P.: Johann Winter, Margaretha Loor
14. Barbara * 13.11.1828 DZ P.: Johann Schütz, Barbara Schütz <2819>
15. Katharina * 06.06.1832 DZ + 11.09.1836 DZ P.: Valentin Hemmerth, Katharina Kielberger

From the Hatzfeld FB (the older one; be aware that much of the information in this FB is suspect, and should be confirmed with the actual records available at FamilySearch):

12253 THOMAS, Konrad
* um. .1802
LUDWIG, Susanna
* um. .1802
Kind(er)
a) Josef t 29.07.1821 Hf
+ 21.10.1821
b) Konrad t 25.08.1822 Hf
Ehe siehe <12260>
c) Magdalena t 12.08.1827 Hf
d) Mathias t 03.02.1830 Hf
+ 11.04.1830 in Hf
e) Josef t 13.06.1832 Hf
f) Josef t 29.09.1834
Ehe siehe <12264>
g) Barbara t 18.01.1835 Hf
h) Johann t um. .1836
+ 02.02.1836 in Hf
i) Johann * um. .1841
Ehe siehe <12267>



William Knuttel
Arcana, LLC, dba the wines of:
William Knuttel/Knuttel Family/Zinfinity/Tentadora
Winery: 21684 Eighth Street East, Suite 600, Sonoma, CA 95476
Mailing: P.O. Box 10787, Napa, CA 94581
707-326-8234 cell
wknuttel@...
www.williamknuttel.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wagner <banater@...>
To: everybody@banat.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2021 10:59 pm
Subject: [banat] Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

Hello:
Can someone do a lookup in Deutsch Zerne or Cenei Familienbuch for me?
Michael Thomas born in Deutsch Zerne 8 Jun, 1880 and died in Philadelphia, PA, US in 1959.
He was married to
Catharina Schraut born in Horvat Cseney (Cenei) on 20 Aug 1883 and died in Philadelphia PA, US in 1911.
I am looking for the father of Michael Thomas. I believe the father's name is either Michael Thomas or Martin Thomas and supposedly was married to a Veronica Hergot.
I am also looking for the marriage of Michael Thomas and Catharina Schraut (about 1905) most likely in Horvat Cenei.
Thank you
Betty Wagner


Re: Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

 

Betty,

There is a Michael Thomas born 6 June and baptized 10 June 1883 (not 1880) to Martin Thomas and Magdalena Hergatt, so this looks like it should be your man.  This is the Deutsch Zerne FB.  It's late here now, but I will either scan the FB for you for the appropriate pages, or find my electronic version and get the info to you that way.  More tomorrow!

Cheers,

Bill

William Knuttel
Arcana, LLC, dba the wines of:
William Knuttel/Knuttel Family/Zinfinity/Tentadora
Winery: 21684 Eighth Street East, Suite 600, Sonoma, CA 95476
Mailing: P.O. Box 10787, Napa, CA 94581
707-326-8234 cell
wknuttel@...
www.williamknuttel.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wagner <banater@...>
To: everybody@banat.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2021 10:59 pm
Subject: [banat] Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

Hello:
Can someone do a lookup in Deutsch Zerne or Cenei Familienbuch for me?
Michael Thomas born in Deutsch Zerne 8 Jun, 1880 and died in Philadelphia, PA, US in 1959.
He was married to
Catharina Schraut born in Horvat Cseney (Cenei) on 20 Aug 1883 and died in Philadelphia PA, US in 1911.
I am looking for the father of Michael Thomas. I believe the father's name is either Michael Thomas or Martin Thomas and supposedly was married to a Veronica Hergot.
I am also looking for the marriage of Michael Thomas and Catharina Schraut (about 1905) most likely in Horvat Cenei.
Thank you
Betty Wagner


Deutsch Zerne and Horvat Cseney Lookup

Betty Wagner
 

Hello:

Can someone do a lookup in Deutsch Zerne or Cenei Familienbuch for me?

Michael Thomas born in Deutsch Zerne 8 Jun, 1880 and died in Philadelphia, PA, US in 1959.
He was married to
Catharina Schraut born in Horvat Cseney (Cenei) on 20 Aug 1883 and died in Philadelphia PA, US in 1911.

I am looking for the father of Michael Thomas. I believe the father's name is either Michael Thomas or Martin Thomas and supposedly was married to a Veronica Hergot.

I am also looking for the marriage of Michael Thomas and Catharina Schraut (about 1905) most likely in Horvat Cenei.

Thank you
Betty Wagner



Re: Marienfeld Look-up for LEUTNER/LEITNER #Marienfeld

Michele
 

Thank you Erin and Charles!

Michele

On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 12:53 AM Banat Researcher <banatresearcher@...> wrote:
@Erin - Regarding your question, I think the creator of the family book wasn't sure about the meaning of the suffix next to Marienfeld, that is why he added those dots, probably to leave an indication in the transcription about the original record that he wasn't sure in providing an accurate referencing. In Latin the suffix of -ensis after a town, for example Heufeld-ensis or Mariafeld-ensis would indicate an inhabitant or a native from the town, just like in English you would call the people from New York New Yorkers, but that doesn't mean they always lived there or they were born there. In this case, the note in the bottom of each couple clearly states "Natus and Nata" in Lothringen (Lorraine) clearly making a distinction between residency and place of birth.

@Michele - As Erin Kampf said You can find the St. Hubert church books here: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/12702
They cover Baptisms 1771-1828 and Marriages, deaths 1771-1854
Note: You will need to create an account before having access to their records.

Regards,
Charles


Re: Parish of Crai Nou/Novi Kraj/Belsőmajor

Florian Straub
 

Hi again,

oh, the village was only established after WW1. In that case it makes
sense, that I don't find it anywhere. Oops.

Thanks for reading anyway

Flo

Florian Straub schrieb am 03.10.2021 um 07:15:


Hi all,

does anybody know to which parish this village belonged in the 19th
century?

Thanks in advance

Flo




Re: Marienfeld Look-up for LEUTNER/LEITNER #Marienfeld

Banat Researcher
 

@Erin - Regarding your question, I think the creator of the family book wasn't sure about the meaning of the suffix next to Marienfeld, that is why he added those dots, probably to leave an indication in the transcription about the original record that he wasn't sure in providing an accurate referencing. In Latin the suffix of -ensis after a town, for example Heufeld-ensis or Mariafeld-ensis would indicate an inhabitant or a native from the town, just like in English you would call the people from New York New Yorkers, but that doesn't mean they always lived there or they were born there. In this case, the note in the bottom of each couple clearly states "Natus and Nata" in Lothringen (Lorraine) clearly making a distinction between residency and place of birth.

@Michele - As Erin Kampf said You can find the St. Hubert church books here: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/12702
They cover Baptisms 1771-1828 and Marriages, deaths 1771-1854
Note: You will need to create an account before having access to their records.

Regards,
Charles

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