Family History questions; Mramorak and before


Kogaylene Ruddick
 

Hello,
I haven’t posted in some time.  I am about to print off a booklet with pertinent information for family about
Bietsch Family in history.  I have some questions I wonder if anyone can help me with?

1.  The families in Mramorak and most were farmers I think in my family, where were the farms located?
      Outside of the city?  I read the families got 2/3 of an acre form Home and not much for a farm?
2.  The silkworms from Mulberry trees were they used for woman’s silk scarves mostly?
3.  
                Men in uniforms: man on  right is my great grandfather Michael Bietsch                      Older picture of Michael Bietsch
                and am geusing the man on the left might be his brother though as
                Michael born in 1860 and brothers in 1864 and 1866.  I think there is
                a family resemblance but Michael kind of looks like the younger one??

             My questions are:  -I have had emails from Dave Dryer re uniform and by
                                           time Border guards disbanded they wouldn’t of been 
                                           old enough.  So likely this picture was taken around
           1875-1885??  
   -if not Border Guards does anyone have a picture of
                                            the Military Unit they might of belonged to??  I have
                                            looked closely at all the uniformed men in Mramorak
                                            picture book and there is not one with a hat like these
                                            men are wearing; they have no belt; and pocket
                                            lapels different too???  I do hope I can solve this
                                            - The picture was taken in Temesvár as you can see
                                               could this explain at all what unit they were in??
                                            -interestingly some pictures in Mramorak picture book
                                             Fire Brigade uniforms almost similar in hats at least??
4. Still wonder why our family spelled name as “Bietsch”.  Is this a German form of
    spelling Bitch?
5.  Am descended from 2 brothers from Switzerland and pretty sure from Christian.
     I have a bit of information on them.  It is interesting to note that there is also 
     a village called Bitsch in Switzerland and though not close to Shiers Switzerland
     where brothers came from wonder if somehow family related from there?? or
     conincidence??  Christian Bitsch who came from Switzerland to Germany his
    father was also Christian Bitsch.  Some people have listed his father as Casper 
   Bitsch but I don’t know if this is true or not??

Any thoughts or answers would be very much appreciated!
Kogaylene  kdruddick@...


Rosina T. Schmidt
 

Hello Kogaylene,

Let me try to explain some aspects of the life of our ancestors at that time and those places.

1) In all of Europe the fields are outside of the town. One field hier, one field there. One can NOT compare it to the North American farms. 2/3 of an acre, should probably have said 2/3 hectare. Not the same thing.

2) The silkworms were fed with mulberry leaves and before they hatched, they were sent to the silk factory where it was processed. There is much info on the internet how silk was made.

4) Bitch in German is Hundin, a female form of Hund (dog). It definitely has no similarity to the English word.

5) Most likely your ancestor originated from the Swiss town of Bietch and received that name when the names were given in 11th to 15th century.

Your ancestor could have two names Caspar and Christian or the other way around. The first name was the name of the family saint, and the child was known after the second name. People who were not familiar with this custom falsely assumed that the first name was the proper one.

In my family all the boys for centuries were named after the family saint Johann and then came their name, like Johann Caspar, Johann Georg, Johann Heinrich, etc. But they were called after the second name only. The girls were in my family named after Saint Anna. Like Anna Maria, Anna Elisabeth, Anna Margareta, etc. 

As for the military uniforms I do not have any information.

May I suggest you read some more on the Danube Swabian history before you start writing about it. On the website www.hrastovac.net under historical information, as well as under Personal recollection, reading about it will help you to understand those times better.



Rosina T. Schmidt 
www.hrastovac.net


On 04302021AD--, at 4:16 56000PM, Kogaylene Ruddick <kdruddick@...> wrote:

Hello,
I haven’t posted in some time.  I am about to print off a booklet with pertinent information for family about
Bietsch Family in history.  I have some questions I wonder if anyone can help me with?

1.  The families in Mramorak and most were farmers I think in my family, where were the farms located?
      Outside of the city?  I read the families got 2/3 of an acre form Home and not much for a farm?
2.  The silkworms from Mulberry trees were they used for woman’s silk scarves mostly?
3.  <fullsizeoutput_1757a.jpeg><fullsizeoutput_1757b.jpeg>
                Men in uniforms: man on  right is my great grandfather Michael Bietsch                      Older picture of Michael Bietsch
                and am geusing the man on the left might be his brother though as
                Michael born in 1860 and brothers in 1864 and 1866.  I think there is
                a family resemblance but Michael kind of looks like the younger one??

             My questions are:  -I have had emails from Dave Dryer re uniform and by
                                           time Border guards disbanded they wouldn’t of been 
                                           old enough.  So likely this picture was taken around
           1875-1885??  
   -if not Border Guards does anyone have a picture of
                                            the Military Unit they might of belonged to??  I have
                                            looked closely at all the uniformed men in Mramorak
                                            picture book and there is not one with a hat like these
                                            men are wearing; they have no belt; and pocket
                                            lapels different too???  I do hope I can solve this
                                            - The picture was taken in Temesvár as you can see
                                               could this explain at all what unit they were in??
                                            -interestingly some pictures in Mramorak picture book
                                             Fire Brigade uniforms almost similar in hats at least??
4. Still wonder why our family spelled name as “Bietsch”.  Is this a German form of
    spelling Bitch?
5.  Am descended from 2 brothers from Switzerland and pretty sure from Christian.
     I have a bit of information on them.  It is interesting to note that there is also 
     a village called Bitsch in Switzerland and though not close to Shiers Switzerland
     where brothers came from wonder if somehow family related from there?? or
     conincidence??  Christian Bitsch who came from Switzerland to Germany his
    father was also Christian Bitsch.  Some people have listed his father as Casper 
   Bitsch but I don’t know if this is true or not??

Any thoughts or answers would be very much appreciated!
Kogaylene  kdruddick@...



Rudolf Huepfl
 

Hello Kogaylene,

I am not a specialist in military issues at all, but the two men wear a quite normal uniform. The hats look like the usual Feldkappe, see annexed picture
My interest is with your Bitsch/Bietsch family. Although it is a quite common name in Banat, do you have a known relation to Franziska Bitsch, *3 AUG 1875 in Ulmbach, Peciu Nou, today Romania, she married in Modosch, Jasa Tomic a Nikolaus Hupfel from Grabatz on  14 JUN 1894. Finally, she lost her live in the Molidorf camp in March 1945.
Have a nice weekend
Rudolf


Kogaylene Ruddick
 

Thank you very much Rudolf for your reply to my questions about military uniform
on Banat list and other questions I had

Yes that is 1st time I’ve seen a picture of the military hat like my great grandfathers!
What a good picture you found.  Hope I can get further answers about his unit.

Sorry but I don’t know that Franziska Bitsch you mentioned.  So sorry to read she was
one of those who perished at Molidorf camp.

Kogaylene

On May 1, 2021, at 8:35 AM, Rudolf Huepfl via groups.io <huepfl@...> wrote:

Hello Kogaylene,

I am not a specialist in military issues at all, but the two men wear a quite normal uniform. The hats look like the usual Feldkappe, see annexed picture
My interest is with your Bitsch/Bietsch family. Although it is a quite common name in Banat, do you have a known relation to Franziska Bitsch, *3 AUG 1875 in Ulmbach, Peciu Nou, today Romania, she married in Modosch, Jasa Tomic a Nikolaus Hupfel from Grabatz on  14 JUN 1894. Finally, she lost her live in the Molidorf camp in March 1945.
Have a nice weekend
Rudolf


Rudolf Huepfl
 

Kogaylene,
There was a long discussion here in Vienna on the sent Photo and the related uniforms. It became (in majority) clear that they do not look like any kuk military uniforms. Many went for fire brigade, but the most promising proposal so far is - railways. Anyway, it is not solved yet and there might be other ideas coming up.
Rudolf


Kogaylene Ruddick
 

Rudolf,
Thanks, interesting never thought about railways.  If railways would they both be wearing a ribbon or medal?
Kogaylene

On May 7, 2021, at 10:01 AM, Rudolf Huepfl via groups.io <huepfl@...> wrote:

Kogaylene,
There was a long discussion here in Vienna on the sent Photo and the related uniforms. It became (in majority) clear that they do not look like any kuk military uniforms. Many went for fire brigade, but the most promising proposal so far is - railways. Anyway, it is not solved yet and there might be other ideas coming up.
Rudolf


Rudolf Huepfl
 

Kogaylene,
As said above, it is not considered as being the final answer. It is mainly a way how to look further. It would not be a surprise to see all kind of honour medals and similar on a sunday uniform. This was not ment for work but really for representations. Both marriages of my grandfather were in kuk uniform.
For better interpretation our specialists made an inprovement on the photo, which I herewith include. In case there is any news on the two brothers in uniform, I let you know. In my opinion, the cap could lead us towards the solution. For me it does not look like kuk military, but also not like railways or postal. When I checked for Honved or Kossuth, the front emblem looks also different.

Rudolf


Kogaylene Ruddick
 

Rudolf,
Thank you for the enhanced photo - it looks great!!  You have been a wealth of information even if we haven’t reached the final solution to the uniforms - I have learnt a lot.  I had to goggle some of the words to understand the meanings but that is ok.  It is like a puzzle trying to find this out.
Thanks so much.
Kogaylene

On May 8, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Rudolf Huepfl via groups.io <huepfl@...> wrote:

Kogaylene,
As said above, it is not considered as being the final answer. It is mainly a way how to look further. It would not be a surprise to see all kind of honour medals and similar on a sunday uniform. This was not ment for work but really for representations. Both marriages of my grandfather were in kuk uniform.
For better interpretation our specialists made an inprovement on the photo, which I herewith include. In case there is any news on the two brothers in uniform, I let you know. In my opinion, the cap could lead us towards the solution. For me it does not look like kuk military, but also not like railways or postal. When I checked for Honved or Kossuth, the front emblem looks also different.

Rudolf